How not to 'fill the gaps' for men

Where on earth have I said that I want women to fit into a stereotype? My position is for whatever reason as explained by many posters women do seem to fill the gaps by doing office drudge work and ideally we need to not do this but it’s hard to change it due to socialisation and expectations of others. Obviously not ALL women and If you haven’t experienced that that’s great but lots have. It’s not a good thing obviously where on earth have I said it is?! Honestly your attitude on this is really strange! It’s like you are desperate for a fight!

This thread has really resonated with me.

I have recently started a new job (healthcare) I am the only woman of my grade and everyone higher than me is male.

Im doing my clinical work, all the admin for my work etc. I am clearly becoming the reliable one. The other men at my level will do the clinical but then just neglect all the admin, they just don't do the very basic tasks. Unfortunately if they don't do them these fall to the nurses/admin staff/cleaners etc who already have enough to do. They will leave so much for me to do the next day and no one fucking notices! I am constantly picking up the slack for their lack of speed and disorganization.

The problem is the men my level can get away with it. If I let even one thing go it will be picked up by the men above me, I am held to a much higher standard. There's one area of work where the others my grade have been slacking and I've just found out that the bosses have been talking about us as a group doing badly in this area, actually no I'm fucking not.

I'm finding it hard because they get praise for doing things that I just do. But when they do things wrong suddenly I have done things wrong too? I can't just not pick up the slack because then I will get blamed.

Honestly I feel like department is just 'very important' men being facilitated by lots of women and they don't even notice. There's women in my department who do everything for these men and I just don't understand how they are so oblivious to this.

I thought I'd managed to not do many of these things -- yet I read Blibbyblobby glue link and suddenly saw I was on that exact path.

I didn't stick around to see people promoted above me - but various things happened that made me realise a lot of what I was doing wasn't noticed by upper management and immediate people above weren't interested in my carrer progression so I moved on and life went other places.

I think it added to imposter syndrome I felt at times and helps explain why I seemed to be working longer and harder than many male collegues as I was doing a lot of managing newer collgues and their work and future planning with no recognition of it and my own coding on top.

sick be more alpha man. Tell your dad you demand directorship now. Don't make a case. Just tell him you want the director role now. It is down to him to make a case for you being unworthy.

You have to be ready to walk. Know what you would do next instead of this. It will show. Be in the position financially and psychologically that they need you much more than you need them. Then the negotiations are easy. Ideally have something else lined up. The fastest way to promotion and pay rise is often "I'm leaving" - that's when they realise good old donkey who always keeps trudging must be given tlc. Do not accept jam tomorrow: that's a refusal. Today. Directorship role offered today in writing, paperwork sorted within two weeks.

Well put, blibby

@DidoLamenting

Your first post was this:”I have no time whatsoever for this pathetic "all the admin falls to me because I'm a woman" shtuck. All work places have a hierarchy. If you are at the upper range of the hierarchy you should be asserting authority that those lower down the chain do the admin/filing/booking transport or whatever.”

While most workplaces these days still have their formal hierarchy which determines HR stuff like salary and promotions, it’s the informal heirarchies and networks that are how stuff actually gets done. Very very few companies still operate with the top down command model because the last couple of decades have seen a deliberate restructuring into flexible, Agile models, at least for the levels below SMT. Furthermore, there are fewer and fewer admin staff as companies move to online self service for stuff like booking meeting rooms, booking travel, submitting expenses etc. Which all works fine for individuals but when scaling up to larger events/initiatives there is no admin expert to own it, and that’s when people tend to look at the support humans to step in.

If you haven’t worked in that environment or are senior enough to be in the “strict hierarchy, people do what I tell them” levels that’s great, but the reality for most of us is that we do our jobs by negotiation and relationships not by giving directives. In that environment, the unspoken and different expectations placed on women vs men are real and relevant, and it is necessary to find strategies to recognise and avoid the socialisation traps without alienating colleagues whose goodwill we still need.

Thank you Blibby that is really helpful I was just saying to my Dsis that I'm going to write an email to him.
Sometimes you just need someone else's insight into how to manage a situation in a different way. I've made a lot of headway from being bought in 2 years ago to assist my cousin in managing the business to being seen by our factories but not the sales team as their boss.

As my mentor said to me your biggest stunning block won't be your abilities or knowledge it will be your extended family. Who want to not do any of the work but also don't want to give up their power.

I'd appreciate so insight into how I win my fight with the misogynistic lot... Including my father!

Don’t think of it as a fight, and don’t think of him as your father. Instead, think that you need to make the business case for promoting you to your MD.

Put together a short, punchy presentation or document linking what you do to revenue generation/client outcomes.

Eg,

for the most recent 3 big sales, tell a story that starts with the sale being agreed then moves to the actions you took to ensure delivery. Make it clear the sales guys are just the first step in the chain and you are the one who makes the money land.

Identify the 3 biggest threats to the company (eg failure to meet legal obligations, staff retention) and state the activities you do to remove or mitigate the risks.

Decide what you want (job title, salary etc) and show how what you do in these examples is typically the role of the person with that title.

If DF has a reason not to promote you now, ask to agree a roadmap to get there.

If he won’t do that, be prepared to find another job. Everything you’ve done is excellent preparation for that too!

And you have been consistently rude and unpleasant god knows what your problem is. If this topic upsets you so much why post on it?

I might point out you were the one who started throwing around accusations of being a MRA or a man. I have found your posts rude and narrow- minded. You also seem very keen that women should conform to your narrow minded stereotype. If you are a "feminist" heaven help any young girl who might come within your sphere of influence.

You seem to have a problem with the idea of a woman who doesn't fit your idea of a submissive doormat "filling in the gaps" even where there is no requirement to do so.

As I said I'm I'm frequently amazed on here about the boasting that goes on about how posters eschew any trappings of femininity but are apparently incapable of avoiding "filling the gaps"

.. and mutter passive aggressively that there was no need to snap and is it the time of the month...?

Then you'd cut and paste that drivel and send it to his wife/girlfriend/nanny/work colleagues etc so people could see what a monumental shit-heel their boy is...

Don't be doormatted!

Searabbit I'm trying unfortunately a lot of what hasn't been done is fundamental things that a business should be doing, like watching the cash, monitoring that production costs don't spiral, nett legislative requirements. I think it's also a symptom of having the wrong people promoted into positions of power and never holding anyone to account.

I tried the let things drop today but I almost can't because otherwise it could affect my livelihood, don't get me wrong I have an amazing opportunity that very few have but I gave up a stable secure job to do this and have put my whole family under financial stress.

I'm between a rock and a hard place I'm not seen as being worthy of promotion because I do all the unexciting (non masculine) things but if don't do them it used against me not to promote or combined with the fact that I don't do sales and leave it to the staff who are paid often more than me to do that side while I sort out making sure we can deliver a product within all the parameters the world requires.

I'd appreciate so insight into how I win my fight with the misogynistic lot... Including my father!

Although then he’ll hold his hands up in mock injury at your tone... and mutter passive aggressively that there was no need to snap and is it the time of the month...?

.. as I had a narky reminder email from a male client..

Send a narky reply.

He has set the tone, if it is to be be "nark" then give the fucker as much nark as he can handle.

... enjoy awkward silence...

Excellent advice. I never fill those gaps.

My work colleague had to explain to her Male boss that she needed a break from working on round the clock corporate deal to sort her laundry do errands etc. He looked baffled. She didn’t have a wife doing all the life admin for him it was all done

I thought of this thread again today as I had a narky reminder email from a male client about a deadline at the end of the week (for something entirely unimportant). No recognition of the fact that we're currently all in turmoil, that many people are figuring out how to look after kids/parents/etc. I have a feeling he's not doing any gap filling right now. I'm trying to figure out the best way to respond given that his request is absolutely at the bottom of my priority list now I'm trying to figure out how to keep the business afloat.

If you are in a position where you can't leave the 'gap' due to consequences there are ways to articulate that there is a gap.

Eg working in a cardiology dept, with someone the same grade as me temporarily in charge who I had noticed hadn't sorted out a lunch rota I couldn't let it go because it would mean a) staff didn't get a break and b) would impact on patients; so I asked the males, same grade, in front of everyone, "I know you will have thought of this because it is one of the basics of running this department but do you think you could let me know which lunch break I'm on".

If it was the example of the room not being booked up thread for a meeting I'd be sending an email to who ever should book the room and ask which room they had booked, I wouldn't be booking it, and the next time I wouldn't ask.

Sickof if you are going to take it over one day it makes sense for you to be appointed a director, and doing director-y things. Have you spoken to your father? You should be stepping back from doing all the glue stuff and focusing on learning the running the business side of things.

Thought of this thread yesterday when realised we need to home school kids and we both work from home. I immediately started planning then caught on that its 50% dh issue too...

Just skimmed through the thread but definitely coming back to this.
The last few days I've been rushing around organising so our staff can WFH and not one of the leadership team has helped me.
I am in the weird position of taking over my family business from my father and although it keeps being alluded to that I'll be made a director sometime it hasn't happened yet...even though I've done more like putting out some major fires thanks to the other directors incompetence in the last few years than most of them have done in ten years.
But it's all the things they hate and find unexciting like legislation, meeting audit requirements, H&S, and HR.
I should just not do them then go 🤷‍♀️

This is an excellent thread. I hope it helps people avoid having to learn to unpack their conditioning the hard way.

Fuck. That Being Glue presentation.

Im not a coder, im in a different branch of Engineering. But Fucking hell that is the Exact story of my career. Right down to the job titles thing. The fact that is i was indepensible to my bloody team, glue, just like she says. And so , so many mediocre men got promoted past me, because whilst I was busy doing all the shit, THEY got the technical work. And then I had insufficient technical experience to be promised. despite the fact that all my glue skills were managerial skills. More annoyingly, I didn’t even volunteer for the fucking glue work. It got landed on me.

I so wish I’d seen that 15 years ago.

I am reading lots of practical steps on this thread. Identifying unconscious patterns of behaviour is the only way to address them. Not seeing any handwringing either. Are you reading the same thread?

And you have been consistently rude and unpleasant god knows what your problem is. If this topic upsets you so much why post on it?