Controversial networks (considered by some to be "cults") mumsnet readers need to be aware of

Thanks for all the kind posts

I visited the supermarket late last night when it is usually very quiet to buy some cheap towels to help me avoid the laundry for a couple of weeks.

While it wasn't exactly busy, largely due to stripped empty shelves, it was busier than usual and some of the staff and customers were very stressed and seemed furious when I tried to make a big space between me and them. They seemes to think that me trying to do social distancing was being ridiculous.

I left very quickly feeling regretful and scared.

The place where I live now has a culture of excessive respect for personal freedoms. Personal freedoms are important but any good thing, taken to extremes, risks becoming a bad thing.

I think also, because it is quite a small place where everyone knows one another that I am perceived as an outsider who is thus the target of hostility. It is very pro-brexit here , with a signficant older population, mostly very right wing.

I feel very concerned about how the hostility to perceived outsiders here could spill over to anyone considered to be an outsider when things get tough, which they inevitably will.

The Kurdish, Polish and other minority people here have been experiencing an increase in hostility due to brexit. A Muslim woman I chat to told me recently that she has a lovely next door neighbour, but I feel very concerned for the welfare of vulnerable minorities here, especially when some long time locals will be turned away from ICUs.

They are already in a rage about outsiders getting social housing and benefits. It is not uncommon to hear people here opine that people on benefits should be forced to work. The virus will escalate these grievances.

Anyway, I digress

Another stressful couple of days, I wont go into details.

I woke up early and started to put together a post here and ended up going down several rabbit holes. I have discovered some intersting things re the Aristsians,

I have a ton of unposted posts re various issues here and what I would like to do, if people don't mind, is to do a bit of aposting frenzy where I just get the info out here.

I am really worried about how pushed for time I am and I have so much to share and I very easily get distracted when I find rabbit holes.

Right now my eyes are a bit sore and I've had a long, fairly stressful day and I need to exercise

My plan is to post a lot of the stuff I discovered today tomorrow morning. As I'm now only going out to exercise I will have a bit more time

Just popping in to say hello and let people know I'm OK so far

I have had an extremely stressful couple of days and am still trying to deep clean and declutter my bedsit so I can live shut in for a while

I will be self isolating, except for occasional outings at night, not because I am sick, so far, thank goodness I have no symptoms, but because my neighbours include some extremely selfish and irresponsible people who have very low consideration for others or who are simply in complete denial about the extremely serious nature of this situation.

The situation with the communal laundry is potentially catastrophic for all tenants here and was a health risk prior to the arrival of the virus. I am extremely concerned about how to keep my clothes, towelling and bedding clean safely.

I am considering wearing a swimming costume in the day and hand washing it so i do not have to use the laundry. Even then I have sheets and towels that need to be laundered on a hot wash and given I live in a small bedsit with no space to dry clothes I don't know what I am going to do.

I could endure using unwashed clothes and towelling but this generates another, albeit different health risk.

I bought lots of face cloths and am thinking of using them one at a time and hand washing them and putting ghem up to dry.

If I wear a swimming costume it means I will have less to wash, but I could get cold. I can do indoor exercise but this means I will need more food, which could present problems.

I am trying hard to stay strong but am feeling quite anxious. Just trying to think strategically about how best to get through this.

My asthma is fairly well controlled with meds but I have AF which is well controlled with meds and could cause problems if I get sick.

Due to smoke drift where I live my lungs have felt like they were burning and hurting for about 6 weeks. I suffer terribly from allergies and have a genetic condition that predisposes me to COPD, although I do not have COPD. The burning lung thing is somethingI get here because of the smoke drift from neighbours.

It is just possible that I have experienced a very mild episode of the virus. It is also posssible that my health conditions mean that it will hit me hard.

I have to get back to prepping my bedsit, but will post soon, probably tonight. I mean to post last night but was just exhausted after a stressful day

I'm in Ireland and they have advised people not to bring children to visit older people, my friend works in a nursing home and they haven't allowed children to visit for the last two weeks.Schools, creches and colleges are also closed but now the toy stores are full of children and very busy!

I am very relieved that the novel coronavirus seems to be leaving most children and young adults unscathed and taking only the older people. I think that most older people would not want it any other way round, as happened with the Spanish flu in 1918.

I am extremely distressed by the casual attitude of some parents, older children and young adults towards social distancing.

People of all ages are behaving very badly and not taking care of others in the community. It is not just parents and children of course. Some of the elderly people where I live are behaving extremely irresponsibly.

But I really wish that people would take the risks towards older people seriously and tell their children to keep their distance from older people in the street, to not take their children to the supermarket or other crowded places, especially if they are coughing and to just extend a bit of kindness and consideration.

Those of us who have been practicing social distancing for some time, washing our hands like crazy and taking great care with the health of ourselves and others are being completely undermined by the activities of selfish, irgnorant people.

Apologies, I just needed to rant.

Normal service will be resumed soon :)

Good morning! :)

I am OK so far.

Arrived at the supermarket at 4am a coule of days ago but it was closed so that the staff could restock.

When I turned up at 6am when it opened the older people and disabled were soon joined by lots of younger, stronger people with pointy elbows. I grabbed a few essentials and left in a hurry.

That's it for me re shopping for now on. I have enough food for maybe 2 weeks and will only go outside now to exercise at a distance from others.

I live in a small bedsit in sheltered housing and have had to get rid of a lot of personal items to make space for food.

I also have a lot of art materials and one of the things I will be doing on lockdown is making art. I am making art about the subjects that interest me, covercive control / brainwashing / the manipulation of consent, crime, cults, the exploitaiton of the vulnerable and family dysfunction and abuse.

Before I had to move from the big city I exhibited at a couple of top art events. Since i moved I have been unable to make art due to space constraints. There is a communal activities room for tenants here but it is contminated by smoke drift, sometimes deliberately by bullies, so I have not been able to use it.

I have to check my external hard drives for screenshots and other data but will be posting later today or tomorrow

Stay safe everyone and be good to each other :)

How are you today hooda? Following with interest.

I am, fingers crossed, well today

Unfortunately there have been significant real life issues I am having to deal with

I am likely to be on lock down any day as I live in sheltered housing with many people who are much more vulnerable than me, although they are in denial about the virus and are not listening to my warnings.

Basically, over the last few weeks the kind of response I got from some readers here is very similar to what I am getting in real life over concerns about the virus

People, mostly women over 70 many over 80 and a few in their 90s live here. The Housing association lets children visit and today I had a strong exchange of words over this issue with one of the more beligerent tenants.

Frankly it is quite hellish. Physical fitness is extremely important to me and without it I am in constant pain and will fall into disability. I have avoided the nearby gym so as not to put the more vulnerable tenants at risk. I have been foolish really as lots of them spend all day in the pub or betting shop.

Today I am disturbed by the loud, constant coughing of one of my neighbours. Not constant as she went out to the shops and cafes a couple of times.

I am very likely soon going to be locked in with them. I will get the virus as we have one small laundry and 3 machines between 75+ tenants.

I have spent all day trying to clean, decluttering (have been decanting DVDs into folders) and sorting out my indoor exercise kit. I still have stuff to do to prepare for when it hits me.

I think it likely I will survive as, even with my health issues I am extremely strong for my age. It is inevitable that I will get sick and I am just looking forward to it being over, having a modicum of immunity and being able to volunteer as I used to work in the NHS I will probably help out at my local GP surgery.

Right now I am trying to get as much indoor exercise as I can and getting cleaning and decluttering done. Once I'm on lockdown I'll be posting all the time that I'm well enough to do so.

I mean, if the first post had begun ‘Dear all, I’m posting this information here to disseminate information that might be of interest from my longtime research on cults with gender beliefs

I did post something similar to that

as I’m in poor health and wanted to get it out there’

I am not in poor health.

I am an older poster on the cusp of the "at risk" age category and with some health issues that put me at risk from the virus. Up until very recently I trained at the gym 5-6 days a week as well as other exercise. The only reason I stopped going to the gym was to protect my close neighbours who are mostly aged 70+.

rather than vague warnings about dark material and not surviving the coming storm, I think initial responses would have been different.

I live very close to an outbreak and, while it is likely that I would survive it is not guaranteed,

The material I research is "dark" and disturbing and the storm is coming.

I have been told that I have a "flowery" way of communicating. I also write poetry and make art and many artistically inclined people communicate in this way. It does not mean that they are mad.

I’m not in the least blaming the OP, who says she struggles with written communication, but I think initial hostility stems from this, not some more ideological motives.

I do not struggle with communication and have been told by many people that I excell at communication.

I make spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes and typos due to dyslexia.

However, as someone with extensive experience of researching cults I am extremely familiar with being told that I have strange beliefs typical of deluded people.

It is easy to understand how this happens and it is an experience that many posters here will be familiar with when they try to point out that the emperor has no clothes and that a man cannot become a woman or vice versa.

In honesty I can completely understand how some people who are unfamiliar with my posts might deduce that I might be "eccentric", however some posts were, IMO, gaslighting and deeply unpleasant.

One of the central issues around the cults that I study is that their MO is veiled in a strange theatrical camouflage with a Carry On films flavour.

In this instance the camouflage involves Miss Whiplash / St Trinnians style theatrics and other elements that, should a victim attempt to disclose abuse, is likely to result in them being gaslighted by well meaning people with an elevated opinion of their ability to discern mad from not mad.

Hopefully this will be a lesson so that readers will pay attention should a traumatised person attempt to describe something that has traumatised them but that appears superficially ridiculous and even comedic,

One of the Russian models who committed suicide after joining a controversial LGAT cult was Ruslana Korshunova.

There are many disturbing press reports of her death, but Peter Pomerantsev's book provides much background information.

It has been a while since I read it and I am unsure which of the models in the cult who committed suicide (2 that I know of there may be more) had been involved in the Amazon women photo shoot mentioned in passing in Pomerantsev's excellent book.

I only noticed the connection because of my enthusiasm for harvesting screen grabs, videos etc re cults and had noticed other cults involved in Amazon women workshops, retreats and photoshoots. More to foloow re this

From the wiki about Ruslana Korshunova

British TV producer and filmmaker Peter Pomerantsev has theorised that Korshunova's suicide was related to her involvement with Rose of the World, a controversial Moscow-based organisation which describes itself as "training for personality development". While researching for a documentary into Korshunova's death, Pomerantsev learned that the model spent three months attending training session at Rose of the World. These sessions—which encourage participants to share their worst experiences and recall repressed memories—are modelled after Lifespring, whose controversial methods were the subject of multiple lawsuits for mental damages in the US during the 1980s. Korshunova attended training sessions with a friend, Ukrainian model Anastasia Drozdova, who committed suicide under similar circumstances in 2009. Friends of the two women reported changes in behaviour after several months at the Rose. Korshunova became aggressive, while Drozdova experienced violent mood swings and grew reclusive; both lost weight. After three months of training, Korshunova returned to New York to look for work, where she wrote of feeling lost and doubting herself. Rick Ross, head of the Cult Education Forum, argues that organisations such as Rose of the World "work like drugs: giving you peak experiences, their adherents always coming back for more. The serious problems start when people leave. The trainings have become their lives—they come back to emptiness. The sensitive ones break." Only months after leaving the Rose, Korshunova was found dead.[18]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruslana_Korshunova

Pomerantsev's book describes how he decides to infiltrate the cult using hidden cameras, mics etc. and using the best undercover jounrnalist in the business, a real no-nonsense tough guy who had gone undecover to expose extremely dangerous groups.

Unfortunately, after exposure to the cult's intensive training sessions, the tough guy jounrmalist starts to behave strangely and feel anxious when away from the cult.

Pomerantsev's book how the MOs of the cults can be used by a nation state to control the masses. There are som elements of book that feminists may not like, however it is an important book re understanding the use of cultic dynamics and I would recommend it for this reason alone.

back to the cleaning for a bit

I need to attend to some things IRL, back soon

Do take care of yourself. You're not mad xx

Thanks so much for this

I know I am not mad, not least of which because sometimes tha gaslighting has been so intense that I have questioned my own sanity (something tryuly mad people never do)

How lolvely it would be to be mad and to wake up and realise that all of this was just a nightmare or hallucination.

Not gonnna happen, so hey ho, onwards and upwards, got to keep fighting, now is a time for sheroes and heroes and some of us thrive in tough times like these.

I am no shero myself. I am flawed in many ways, have done many things I later regretted, not done things I should have done, I am very far from perfect. I never give up though. Relentless when I have th bit between my teeth lol

Yes, for those if us in similar situations, we can see that effect=/=cause.

I am so sorry to hear that you have endured gaslighting and related challenges

Have some flowers
I wish I could give you more I really do

Do you know when this was written, the FAO on the sundaughter website?

I am sorry I have not had ttime to check that out. The archive may prove helpful? Because so much material in relation to cults disappears I have concentrated on archiving and taking screen shots. I keep mening to collate everything but keep finding more related rabbit holes.

One of the reasons I am posting is so that clever women (and men if they want to - I'm not precious) can help to think about this stuff.

The language about gender is familiar...interesting that the term sex is not used apart from saying that:

.Darwin fundamentally changed what Tellurian human beings think they are and made possible the concept of “sex” in the modern sense (the word is first used in that sense 1926, by the way).

I understand the they are saying Intermorphiction is a genre, but then it's like they are saying it's an actual world, an alternative world.

I am absolutely thrilled and excited that you are starting to engage with this and thinking about it.

I have so much data linking different themes in different cults, i have so many thoughts and insights that I want to share, but I think the most important thing is for readers to know that I do not know everything about these groups and that I need help to research and think about them.

Working out a family tree, as happens with the evolution of lifeforms, including viruses, is important to our helping us to understand what the hell is going on.

This virus is scary and very bad news, however with clever women on lockdown and with a great demand fo podcasts and content we might be able to turn some elements of this to our advantage and help stop vulnerable people from being abused.

We need to develop immunity to the mind viruses and the only way to do that it to engage in creative and analytical thinking about what is going on

I would really welcome your thoughts on the writings of this cult about sex and gender, I am brewing some of my own but, because of the contraints of time, they are mostly about common themes, nodes and indicators.