This is taking the proverbial

Two blokes proved any bloke can walk into any women's facility by waving the Sad Bloke With Hurty Feelings card.

They don't even have to play that card, or pretend to play it. They can just say fucking let me in, love.

” We were made to feel so little and made to feel that there was a perverse motive which there certainly was not.”

Oh cry me a river.

Two blokes proved any bloke can walk into any women's facility by waving the Sad Bloke With Hurty Feelings card.

Blokes give not a shit about 'how they made' the staff 'feel'. (Or that actually no one can make you feel anything, and competent grown ups take responsibility for their feelings instead of whine for someone to kiss it better.

M&S had other customers that day. The woman that complained to a member of staff that she didn't want to "get her tits out in front of men". M&S have not made her feel comfortable. Also the customer who believed that the M&S lingerie changing room was for "women wanting to try on bras" was no doubt left feeling uncomfortable discovering that this was no longer the case. M&S have been deceptive by changing their policy on single sex changing area's without making this change clear to all it's customers.

Two sensitive male chums wanting to try on trousers (for Grans funeral) in the lingerie section of M&S. Bless...

” We were made to feel so little and made to feel that there was a perverse motive which there certainly was not.”

Except there was a perverse motive. One to invade women’s spaces. This would not be the nearest changing room to the men’s trousers.

But if they're giving in, they should at least issue clearer instructions to staff and clearer signage for customers.

As is clear from the Center Parcs thread, places have changed their policies to the detriment of the safety/privacy/dignity of women but, knowing that these changes would go down very badly with many of their customers, are concealing them to some degree. Even if this means dissembling or outright lying.

It is craven and deceitful. Unfortunately it will probably take either action in the courts or mass protests to get a public acknowledgement of what they're up to.

Such a ludicrous situation. M&S are over a barrel that they put themselves on.
Dopes.

This is not a 'misunderstanding' or a lack of clarity in communication. Anyone suggesting it is is either trying a bit of light obfuscation or displaying credulity beyond the point of reason.

So long as the direction is incoherent, the way people interpret it will be unpredictable.

Theoretically, yes.

M&S is at fault in giving in to unreasonable demands that they still, under the Equality Act, have the right to refuse. But if they're giving in, they should at least issue clearer instructions to staff and clearer signage for customers.

But walking out of the men's section and then through the women's section to try on trousers in the women's changing room? These men were trying it on, and it was a win-win situation for TRAs. If the staff member stood up to them they would enjoy some confrontation, and if she gave in they would have validation.

Anyone want to join me for a round of the 'I told you so' dance?

Well thanks guys for the fully publicised demonstration that men can now enter women's spaces at will for any agenda they happen to have in mind and no one can stop them .

There's no longer any such thing as women's spaces. There are two men's spaces, one of which may have some women in them sometimes.

Male supremacism.

They can fuck off.

I am rather grumpy as just had to cancel a major family event to avoid risk of passing around virus to older family members (and somewhat worried about when I will next be able to see them/whether they will catch it from someone else before then), and despite that still realising we are (so far at least) among the "lucky ones" to not have more serious worries. So my patience for whiney wankers deliberately stirring up trouble and chipping away at women's rights and freedoms is zero; and my patience with M&S if they cave in to this is not much better.

(Rant over - for now...)

This is a story that has been purposely created.

Bleurgh - utter creeps.
No (real) women anywhere have demanded that M & S hand over lingerie changing rooms to men. It's just men without boundaries who demand (and have been given access) to changing rooms where women are undressing.
So pleased that I no longer shop there. Hope M & S appreciate their new dodgy customers.

So two adult men have never set foot on a clothes shop before? Never tried anything on? Never realised that in most there are dedicated men's changing rooms in the men's departments?

Fuck off with your fake sob story incels

Either way I’d have to question the motive of any man who thought they were entitled to use the lingerie fitting room. Decent blokes would back away.

This argument that it's not safe because bad men will go in anyway is such an own goal. Because as you say, decent men won't go in the women's changing rooms. Only those with dubious motives (or by accident) will go somewhere they're not supposed to be. By saying you should go in, you're grouping yourself with that dubious motive group, not the decent men group

The whole thing reads as some chancer’s wank fantasy to me. I’ve never been told by a member of shop staff ‘this is the changing room where women try bras on.’ Maybe if I’d asked specifically, but normally they would say lingerie.

Either way I’d have to question the motive of any man who thought they were entitled to use the lingerie fitting room. Decent blokes would back away.

Last time I went in M&S when DP bought trousers I was waiting outside and a man came to the door with his young DS. The lingerie section and the kids section are next to each other. The woman informed him it was the lingerie fitting room and he went crimson. My DP is female btw.

If you make statements that don't seem to make sense, that contain contradictory elements, people will misunderstand them

Many people will ask.
Many people regardless of policy or invitation wouldnt use a changing room that was clearly for the opposite sex eg "its for women trying on bras" or "its for men but you (obviously female R0) can use it"

I have already said upthread that I think M&S should have clear signs so all customers know that the changing rooms are effectively mixed sex. There will of course always be a small proportion of people who dont think of the impact on other people (customers & staff) & put their own wants first.

people will misunderstand them

Pull the other one, it's got bells on. This is a clear case of men exploiting a stupid policy for political reasons, fetish reasons, or both.

He said: “We were made to feel so little and made to feel that there was a perverse motive which there certainly was not.”

Two men make a song and dance about being entitled to use a female changing room where women and young girls are taking their bras off.

perverse
/pəˈvəːs/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
1.
showing a deliberate and obstinate desire to behave in a way that is unreasonable or unacceptable.

I'm not sure why people think they are going to try to make money out of this? They were allowed to do exactly what they wanted. The only person who objected was some 'never to be traced and certainly entitled to her opinion' woman in the queue.

I sincerely hope they don't let this rest. Let's hear it from the rooftops.

Yes, that's nice for you Rowantres, but it totally misses the point.

If you make statements that don't seem to make sense, that contain contradictory elements, people will misunderstand them. They will try and figure out a way that they make sense, and since it doesn't make sense at least some people will interpret them in the wrong way. How can a room be for a particular group but also others allowed? One way to interpret that is that it was meant to be convenient for one group (close to the men's area, or the undergarments area, whatever) but was not meant to be exclusive.

So long as the direction is incoherent, the way people interpret it will be unpredictable.

I have to say, I'm not sure what I'd make of it if someone said to me, well, these rooms are for men to try on trousers but you are still allowed to use them.

If I knew that I was not male, I would thank them for the invitation & then ask where the women's changing room was. I might ask about the apparently strange rule & probably enquire if men were also invited to use the women's changing room.

If it wasnt busy Id probably have a chat with the M&S staff about possible problems, not least how tricky this must be for them.

we allow customers the choice of fitting room in respect of how they identify themselves.

Yet these men, who identify themselves men, were welcomed to use the fitting room intended for women to try on bras. I guess that in this case they identified as Entitled.

He said: “We were made to feel so little and made to feel that there was a perverse motive which there certainly was not.”

Oh you poor wee things. Any thought for how the women whose privacy and security you invaded were made to feel?

While in the changing room, they heard the member of the public say, “I wouldn’t want to get my ts out in front of other men.”

No woman would say this, for goodness sake. And 'other men'? Little bit of a slip there.

It is then claimed the M&S staff member laugh and agreed before saying, “we have to allow it because of all this new stuff."

Yeah right. It's right up there with 'gran's funeral'.

So they were allowed to take their clothes into the bra fitting room, despite numerous fitting rooms designed just for them, and their only complaint is that a shop worker actually agreed that they could, and a made up story about a woman in the queue who, even fictionally, unsurprisingly didn't want to get naked in front of strange men.

Of course, this is a story that counts in our favour, not theirs. Fools.

I have to say, I'm not sure what I'd make of it if someone said to me, well, these rooms are for men to try on trousers but you are still allowed to use them. It's incoherent. Do they mean they are meant to be near the trousers so they are convenient, or what?

They may have been taking the piss, knowing that there was a controversy, but the lack of clarity is going to cause confusion with some people who are just trying to follow whatever the barmy rules are.

M&S “The fitting rooms are located within our womenswear and menswear departments and therefore are mainly used by customers of that gender, however, as an inclusive retailer and in line with most other retailers, we allow customers the choice of fitting room in respect of how they identify themselves.”

M&S should have clear signs which make clear all changing rooms are mixed sex.

It is, of course, not an 'inclusive' policy since many women will not wish to try on clothes or be fitted for a bra in a mixed sex space and so be excluded.