Harvey Weinstein sentenced to 23 years

Well, Goose, I don’t know the details

I would be concerned about the cost to the taxpayers, for sure.

But a system that has delivered this sentence, I’m interested in how it all works.

!!??

The American justice and prison system are a travesty. Ineffective, expensive, and inhuman.

The US system sounds so much better than ours.

Hmm, I'm not sure I think increased racism is straightforward esp as related to Brexit. I watched that video on the other thread about race and it made some interesting connections.

Is it at the upper end for men convicted of more than one offence? I'd expect that might make a significant difference to the sentencing.

In the US they will often give consecutive sentences. So if you have one conviction for 20 years, and another for 30, you could serve 50 years.

Well yes I can see that point too but they don't - and it's mainly anti gay men/boys homophobia it seems to be ok to be lesbian or bi woman but that might be as they're girls themselves mainly

Graphista “ homophobia (even with them being very pro trans!) is also shocking”

I’d argue there’s a link between homophobia and pro trans.

It's so hard when this stuff isn't being widely publicised.

People think that means it either isn't happening or isn't serious/important which is nonsense.

Scary that neighbour is 40 and so unaware.

I'm 47 and generally speaking I find over 35's are more tuned in. Younger women especially dds generation seem to be winding human history back the way on equality issues! And not just sexism but the casual racism (especially since Brexit announced) and homophobia (even with them being very pro trans!) is also shocking

Graphista

Neighbour is a 40 year old woman.

Thing is, she even got slapped after turning down a man’s advances in the pub

I think it’s just too scary for her to see reality maybe?

We have very good discussions. We both like to be calm and quiet and see what we can learn from each other.

She also asked me “why aren’t feminists worried about things like the incident in cologne and the GRA”. When I explained we were being silenced, she looked into it and said she agreed with me.

I have t tackled this with my god daughter, who is 14. I’ll wait a bit.

@AutumnRose1 that level of sticking head in sand bewilders me. I mean I know it happens but still...

Dd has had similar conversations with her peers as you've had with your neighbour. I've (hopefully) raised her to be feminist, assertive and to keep herself informed. I well remember a conversation when she had a few friends over once (mixed sex group) and iirc because of a high profile rape case on tv then I mentioned the stats on rape prosecutions and convictions and their jaws dropped!

The lack of understanding of consent among the boys came up too and that terrified me! These were "nice" lads dd had been friends with since primary school they were a close group yet ALL the boys were very poorly educated on consent.

I also well remember the 1st seminar at uni on women's writing, which was almost all women students as an optional module, the lecturer started it off with a question something like "have women and girls got equality now in the Uk?" and being shocked that the younger ones (I expected them to be more insistent on such matters somehow) genuinely believed we did.,

All the mature students didn't believe this - which inc the only 3 men who were there!

Lecturer then displayed key stats on the screen on:

Educational achievement
Employment
Wages
Home ownership
And...

Rape and sexual assault prosecutions and convictions.

There was a loud audible collective gasp as even some of us older ones didn't realise quite how bad it was!

It's not discussed nearly enough with the very people who won't eg read the fwr boards here.

The people who come here are more likely to at least be interested in learning if not already quite well informed

But to effect change the people we NEED to learn this info aren't seeking it out.

Dd despairs at her generation's (they're younger than millennials not sure what they're called) ignorance of the problems with GRA etc - again I've witnessed conversations she's had with friends where I've visibly seen the "penny drop" it's very gradually getting through to a few of them but generally the ones with awkward, stringent feminist mums like me!

Why are the younger generations not learning this stuff? Not aware of it?

Out of curiosity how old is your neighbour? Would I be right in guessing under 35?

Before he was charged I really thought he'd never go to prison. It's so good he's got a proper sentence.

Some prison wardens are going to make a lot of money making his life a-bit easier in jail I think.

It's amazing, wonderful news. Part of me doesn't really think the sentence will actually be served. His type (very rich) seem to get away with everything.

Graphista

I think sometimes it s important to be frank.

I have a neighbour who agrees with me on nothing. One day she asked what feminism had left to do. Things like the rough sex defence, she had no idea. The handling of certain trials, no idea. Horrible conversation to have in the pub but helpful because it opened her eyes.

I think some people don’t want to believe what some men are capable of. Her interpretation of Me Too was bizarre. I told her about my experience of being harassed at work and you could see the cogs turning, she knows I wouldn’t make it up for attention. It’s sad that it ever occurs to anyone but it helps to hear it from someone they respect I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

Unfortunately any pleasure I would take in knowing Harvey Weinstein has got his come uppance is massively limited by the fact that this whole problem is deep and systemic and there are thousands and thousands of abusers and rapists walking free. We got Harvey Weinstein, R Kelly is (finally) back in court, Kevin Spacey lost a few movie deals. What about everyone else?

Now the Weinstein saga is over we'll see limited coverage of #metoo in the media. I personally know a fairly famous actress who was told she had to sleep with the director to get the part. She can't speak up about it because it would be her word against his and she could ruin her career. What will change for women really after #metoo? Not much I don't think.

@AutumnRose1 thank you

It is so disgusting and disappointing that there are people STILL questioning the validity of the allegations and his accusers. I'm guessing all men?

Just HOW do we get through to them that the vast vast majority of allegations/accusations are not only true but a mere drop in the ocean given many victims NEVER report and a significant number never tell anybody?

Graphista, I feel for you.

Mockers, I haven’t seen the film but you hang em high so they can be seen farther away surely?

People speculating, do they understand there was a specific set of cases heard or do they think is everyone who said “me too”?

US prison systems massively underfunded. Poor staff to inmate ratio. Private I vestments meansnthe system monetized. Near absence of education, rehabilitation, healthcare, nutrition, mental healthcare...all the stuff necessary to maintain the basic needs of a human. Expect HW to lose a massive amount of weight and improve his health and life expectancy if he doesn't get done over by an inadequately medicated inmate with a mental health diagnosis.
The system is cruel as a byproduct not necessarily des8gn. The profit margin means every ounce is squeezed out of the system and fuck all invested. Even outbof general population he will be at risk.
Welcome back to the real world Harvey

Apparently 'half' the women will be lying and exploited him so the sentence is a bit harsh.

Well that's nonsense isn't it? Rape and sexual assault cases are the hardest to get convictions for because it invariably boils down to one person's word against the other. Add to that, the prosecution is swimming against the tide due to the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof resting with them. This is also a case involving an extremely wealthy man and a legal system where the better the legal defense you can afford the greater your chances of a not guilty verdict.
His conviction could not be more sound as far as I am concerned. I think rather than doubting the integrity of the women who have had the courage to stand up and be counted, reasonable people should be wondering how many more victims might there be?

I am fairly sure that if the judge thought he'd only been guilty of the one crime he wouldn't have been given 20 years for it.

Probably. But, while mentioning untried cases sounds like something we wouldn't do here, HW was convicted of two separate crimes.

The 20 year sentence is at the top end of what people typically get for that crime and I wonder if that reflects the fact that he was up for so many, even more serious, charges that obviously weren't able to be proven in court.

In sentencing, the judge actually mentioned cases that didn't come to court. In England, I don't think you can sentence people for crimes they haven't been tried for. I am fairly sure that if the judge thought he'd only been guilty of the one crime he wouldn't have been given 20 years for it.

The 20 year sentence is at the top end of what people typically get for that crime

Is it at the upper end for men convicted of more than one offence? I'd expect that might make a significant difference to the sentencing.

I've been reading a bit more about the charges to understand exactly why the sentencing was what it is. As far as I understand the rape was in the third degree which is the "mildest" (I don't know what other word to use) form of rape. As I understand it is used in a situation where the victim was coerced/inebriated rather than forced. On the other hand the criminal sex act was in the first degree which means use of force, holding someone down etc. That's why that charge got 20 years whereas the rape got 3.

He was actually up for even more serious charges including rape in the first degree but was acquitted of those. The 20 year sentence is at the top end of what people typically get for that crime and I wonder if that reflects the fact that he was up for so many, even more serious, charges that obviously weren't able to be proven in court.

Yes I completely agree.

Apparently it's the American system.

He was sentenced on the basis of the specific cases which were tried and of which he was found guilty. Your friends' speculations are irrelevant.

I've just had an interesting discussion about this.

Apparently 'half' the women will be lying and exploited him so the sentence is a bit harsh.

Of course this discussion was with men. When I asked where this 'half' figure came from, no one could tell me. It changed to a 'significant' proportion.

Reading this thread, I'm feeling that women on this board are entitled to an occasional piece of feminist whataboutery. Slavery and servitude , dying in uncivilised conditions, uncivilised and unsafe prisons, inadequacies of healthcare .... yes, by all means let's talk about those but frankly I don't want to spend my headspace on thinking about them in relation to a long term rapist who should have been put away years ago. There are plenty of men who doubtless can wring their hands (some of them maybe thinking, shit, that could be me one day) and work on improving conditions for elderly rapists. It's not the job of a feminism board.