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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans actors can play cis but cis can't play trans. Why am I bothering to try and see the sense?

134 replies

Doyoumind · 11/03/2020 15:06

A trans woman was due to play a woman in a play but declined when it turned out a trans woman would be played by a man. As far as I can tell, the trans character undergoes no medical or surgical transition so would have a wholly male physique anyway.

The casting decision could cause violence and death, apparently.

I'm sure the talent pool is limited just down the numbers. Would it have been acceptable for a woman to play the part?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8098373/Transgender-actress-Kate-ODonnell-pulls-Breakfast-Pluto-musical-casting-row.html

OP posts:
FrankieManca · 11/03/2020 17:35

But if the diktat is that ‘sex bad, gender good’ what does it matter what sex the actor is?

All acting is appearing to identify as the character. Confused

I feel as if I have drunk from a bottle labelled ‘Drink Me!’.

isabellerossignol · 11/03/2020 17:35

I’m still not over the dinosaurs being CGId into Jurassic Park.

Maybe it was the lack of acting opportunities and recognition that killed the dinosaurs? They literally died because their feelings were hurt so badly.

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 17:31

I want all the TV surgeons to be played by actual medics!

The story there is that John Hodge, an actual junior hospital doctor, wrote the screenplay for Trainspotting and what with the low budget roped in a lot of his hospital mates as extras, so your wish comes true.

Trouble was, director Danny Boyle was not happy with the (actual) nurse in the Perfect Day scene and the way she puts the needle in Ewan McGregor's (proper Scottash accent) arm.

Boyle was insistent. He needed to see the needle going in. Nurse was insistent. This was the way to do it, with the needle covered by the hand. Director got his way in the end. Art trumps Life everytime.

SophocIestheFox · 11/03/2020 17:31

I’m still not over the dinosaurs being CGId into Jurassic Park.

Don’t they know what the unemployment rates are like for velociraptors? I know any number of them who’d have had Spielbergs arm off for the chance of a part.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 11/03/2020 17:27

I’m holding out for only Scottish actors to play Scots. I am oppressed by atrocious faux Scots accents. It’s colonialism! From the oppressor!

💪💪💪😁

I want all the TV surgeons to be played by actual medics! (& tv CPR should be banned but that’s a different rant)

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 17:25

...Or let's go back to Shakespearean Theatre and ban the girlies altogether.

Lordfrontpaw · 11/03/2020 17:24

What a load of nonsense.

In primary school I played Dorothy in the wizard of oz, and my friend played the wicked witch. The old cow of a drama teacher said that my friend got the play the nasty witch because the was such a lovely girl, and I got to play sweet little Dorothy because... (hey I didn’t care - I got to play Dorothy!)

Languishingfemale · 11/03/2020 17:23

Errol has the solution upthread: trans people for trans parts only, women for women's, men for men's. Easy.

Reginabambina · 11/03/2020 17:23

@Cheeseandwin5 of course there as many female transgender people as men. Females that undergo transition are trans men, did you mean male rather than men?

teawamutu · 11/03/2020 17:21

TRAs would paste you for using the term 'a transgender', just so you know.

And I've always thought Gendered Intelligence one of the least accurately named charities around.

But by all means, scold us some more. It always works so well.

isabellerossignol · 11/03/2020 17:21

and it is no more evident than some of the comments on here.

Well, since you're keen to educate me, I can't wait to learn. So, how is a man a woman just because he says he is?

donquixotedelamancha · 11/03/2020 17:21

or would be rightly saying that there are so few superhero roles for females that those that exist should be played by women?

Women are already undervalued on Hollywood (Indeed the transwoman in the article is taking a role from a woman) the issue in the scenario you describe is that it would be silly- inhibiting suspension of disbelief.

What difference does it make to a performance of the biological man playing a transwoman is trans in real life or not?

Reginabambina · 11/03/2020 17:20

Ooooh. I read this briefly this morning but could make neither head nor tail of it. Funny how it’s perfectly ok for a male to play a woman but not okay for a male to play a MTF transgender woman. Still, not the most bonkers this I’ve read this week.

SophocIestheFox · 11/03/2020 17:18

Correct me if I’m wrong, cheese, but surely only someone born male can be a trans woman, yes? I mean, I can’t be a trans woman, can I, and the reason for that is that I was born* female.

*and remain

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 17:17

There's a new Scooby-Doo film coming soon, and yet again the casting is Dogface.

Somewhere, there's a flatuelnt great dane who's been cheated out of that part.

Thisismytimetoshine · 11/03/2020 17:15

Stop the patronising shite, Cheese. People “understand” perfectly well.

Cheeseandwin5 · 11/03/2020 17:12

OK it seems I didn't realise the lack of understanding I was dealing with.
Firstly Transgender ppl are not a horde of hairy men who are only doing it to perve on women. They are as many female transgender as men and they do feel an absolute need to express who they are, for that purpose only and not to harass women.
Secondly the reason that the incident occurred was because there are so few roles for transgender ppl, that having one that is specifically written for them played by someone who then played by someone else would be a slap in the face. Having a mother played by a transgender is not a comparison.
For ease it would be like a film about the Justice league where all the characters were men save WW (which is almost as it is now), would we be happy if Wonder Woman was played by a man if the role of her uncle was played by a woman- or would be rightly saying that there are so few superhero roles for females that those that exist should be played by women?
As the trans-led charity Gendered Intelligence expressed , having an actor who was born male playing a trans woman increases prejudice because "many people internalise the myth that being trans is a performance, a deception, that trans women are 'really men'."
and it is no more evident than some of the comments on here.

SophocIestheFox · 11/03/2020 17:12

Not to mention Saoirse Ronan's impeccable Marcia Blaine Edinburghian when Marie Stuart was a Frog

Always reminds me of Ludwig’s MQoS impersonation in Blackadder: “hoots mon, where’s ma heid?” Grin

BiologyIsReal · 11/03/2020 17:06

It's called acting FFS.

The only good thing to come out of this sort of crap is that the trans activists are shooting themselves in the foot (feet?) as the whole rationale behind their campaign was to keep a low profile and eschew publicity thereby sneaking all the insanity through under the radar. That's going well isn't it?

Publicity? Bring it on. The more the public sees this shit the more they will understand the agenda.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 11/03/2020 17:05

I’m holding out for only Scottish actors to play Scots. I am oppressed by atrocious faux Scots accents. It’s colonialism! From the oppressor!

Oh God yes. Please. Just, if you can't do the accent (or even if you think you can.. you probably can't), don't do the accent. It's fine, I'll notice it much less than some awful impression of an accent.

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 17:05

It's payback, Sam-you-ell. For decades the plum black roles in British films went to yanks: Sidney Poitier in To Sir With Love, Forrest Whittaker in The Crying Game, (worst bowling action in cinematic history,) Denzel Washington in Queen and Country.

I hope Samyouell gets the joke in Supergirl with the villain Manchester Black, who does exactly what it says on the tin.

Goosefoot · 11/03/2020 17:00

Samuel Jackson was recently also complaining that black British actors can't bring the same experience to black American characters as an American would. To which the directors all think "Yeah, but at least they can act". But they don't say it out loud.

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 16:58

It's nothing new. American Equity once said Johnathan Pryce could not play a half-French, half-Vietnamese character in Miss Saigon on Broadway because it had to be a Chinese-American.

Goosefoot · 11/03/2020 16:55

This is really piggybacking on the same kind of sentiment about casting of minority ethnicities. If you are an American Hispanic actor you can play whomever but if you get Angelina Joli to play a Hispanic role that is racism.

The most coherent argument for this is that some groups have been consistently marginalised in terms of being given roles, and so if you don't even give them so-called ethnic roles, it's really bad. But many people now see this all as the equivalent of blackface. So it's no wonder we are seeing similar things around other identities.

Mockerswithnoknockers · 11/03/2020 16:54

But if the actor cast to play the trans part uttered the magic words 'I feel like a woman'...

Not good enough if you're a Stanislavski practicioner. You must Believe...