Billy Bragg

Love the rewording of one of his songs by Karen Ingala Smith in response

Billy, how about we agree not to negatively stereotype trans people, if you keep rapists out of women's prisons?

But why he can't see that people - just any person - "self-identifying" into another vulnerable group will spell trouble, I just don't know.

He's still thinking, and using, the word "transsexuals" - which the TRA would have his bollocks for - because that's outdated language and the "transsexuals" are called nasty names like truscum now.

Billy Bragg, please allow me to introduce you to autogynephilia, and cross-dressing, sexual fetishes... and then tell me they should be able to self-identify into spaces where women may be vulnerable.

Sorry Billy, women aren’t emotional support animals for confused men

I loved this reply tweet.

At least he's giving us yet another insight into the Labour government we might have got.

I am feeling so confused politically

I'm the same. Perhaps I'm hopelessly naive but I really trusted that people on the "left" cared about the vulnerable people (all of them, not just select groups) in society. That they cared about equality and fairness. Instead it's becoming clear that if certain vulnerable people upset the narrative then they just have to get out the way. Poor women in prisons, women struggling to escape prostitution, women in refuges, older women who don't want to share a hospital ward with someone they consider to be male. The Brexit voting working class. It turns out the compassion for these vulnerable people was all surface level. They don't really give a toss. It feels as though I'm seeing everything in a whole new (rather bleak) light.

I'm not surprised - Mr Protest-Singer is like many left wing men, just doesn't see women's rights as an issue

Absolutely!

Recall speaking to a young woman who had joined the SWP ( outside of Labour party conference in Liverpool). she was telling me how she had to give sessions on sexism to the mostly male membership. They thought she was there to make the tea.

Much of the old left is still stuck, exclusively, in fighting for the rights and dignity of the working man.

Littl Billy Bragg is a lefty singer songwriter who has been around forever and has acquired national treasure status. Even those on the right can have a certain fondness for him without agreeing with him.

But he is the original woke bloke.

Like many left wing men who romanticise traditional working class stereotypes, Billy views women as helpmeets to support men who are doing the important work

The bit in italics sums him up exactly.

Not surprised to hear this. He's awful.

He retweeted Zoe Williams article as a ‘powerful defense (sic) of trans rights’ and has gone on in replies to demonstrate he has zero understanding of what the issues are here. Keeps complaining about ‘negative stereotypes’. He’s stuck way back

Billy Bragg is one of those many people who have been doing the rounds of counter-cultural protest for many decades - and is still saying the exact same things.......... Like the Socialist Workers ( no interest in, or awareness of women's issues at all), the anti -fascists ( often the scariest of the lot when all dressed up in black and their face covered)....

Never heard of him. Sounds like a total tool so happy to remain ignorant on the total tool

I have always liked Billy Bragg but he's wrong on this and deservedly getting a negative response to his tweets. I am feeling so confused politically, have no idea what is left and right any more. The left seem to be against women's rights, and free speech. Still holding out for Keir Starmer to say something supportive (or even neutral ! ) but expecting him to disappoint and I'll not bother voting at all in the leadership contest.

How very bucolic.

Aaah, my near neighbour Mr Bragg whose authentic voice of the old East End is now based in rural Dorset.

It also ignores what would be next. That zero risk would mean isolating transwomen in women's prisons and that would be so incredibly discriminatory that that isolation would have to be removed.

Exactly.

Helen Staniland on Twitter asks all woke men to say that they are happy with 11 year old girls being forced to undress next to a penis. (Something like that) Many of them can't or obviously realise how it's going to look.

It also ignores what would be next. That zero risk would mean isolating transwomen in women's prisons and that would be so incredibly discriminatory that that isolation would have to be removed.

The choices are: no transwomen in women's prisons or transwomen in women's prisons having the same restrictions on their movements that women prisoners have.

I've had these very words spoken to me. That transwomen belong in women's prisons and if things are organised correctly there is zero risk.

Sometimes it helps to focus on privacy and dignity rather than simply risk. They cannot say there is no conflict without saying "trans women are women so you're bigoted for not being comfortable with penises in female spaces". At the very least it makes the misogyny harder to ignore for casual readers.

I've had these very words spoken to me. That transwomen belong in women's prisons and if things are organised correctly there is zero risk

Neatly forgetting zero risk only occurs when the policy is not to incarcerate males with females.

Neatly forgetting the legal rights of women to have the safety, dignity and privacy of single sex spaces.

Like many left wing men who romanticise traditional working class stereotypes, Billy views women as helpmeets to support men who are doing the important work.

YY.

The answer to the Karen White question has been given above:

"Karen White" [is] a terrible error by the prison service, which should not be used to argue against trans rights.

I've had these very words spoken to me. That transwomen belong in women's prisons and if things are organised correctly there is zero risk.

Billy has been gone a long time. He's a woke nationalist and corbynista, so that he's now moved onto this subject and has a really daft opinion isn't surprising.

I'm not out on Twitter, if I was I would ask him and Zoe: Karen white - men's prison, women's prison or third space?

They never answer that directly as they know option 1 is right but terfie, option 2 is the woke answer but shows them to be a rape enabler which isn't a good look. And option 3 is a potential workable solution but puts the lie to TWAW shite.

I think it’s fabulous. The more misogynist crap that gets spouted on Twitter, the more people wake up and think wtf is going on.
Bragg is a v useful idiot in publicising the full horror of what TRAs are demanding - and how wonderfully encouraging is the pasting he’s getting for it! Normal sensible people are skewering his ignorant arguments and calling out his contempt for women. More sunlight!

Didn’t he get his arse handed to him by a lot of Jewish ppl when he declared there was no way anyone in labour was anti Semitic?

Yes Kit19. There are parallels between the Labour momentum and fellow traveller Labour factions approaches to anti semitism and transgender rights in that both are based upon a hierarchy of discrimination in which the rights of one group are less important than another.

As for Zoe Williams, she has never really spoken up for vulnerable women such as those with severe and enduring mental health problems or those in prison so I am not really surprised she has written this. In fact, I think she has said similar before.

I like that analysis of ‘you wanted equality - you’ve got it’, TheFlushedZebra.

I'm not surprised really I remember him from the days of the miners strike. He was very much about the 'heroism' of the men, and not one shiny shit about the women and children who were also suffering.

he finds women who don't want men to compete in women's sports competitions are 'discriminatory'.

He’s a twat

There are a few points of discussion on FWR that i struggle with slightly

But quite honestly anyone anyone who can’t see Potential problems with transwomen or men on female sports teams or in female sports competitions is a complete fuckwit...