Is it ever acceptable to hire a cleaner?

12-15 an hour is common.

I'm a TA I'm way under that, where's the article about homeschooling ?

This is how the whole capitalist system works though. I'm not saying I agree with it, but the issue about women employing cleaners comes up far more than the existence of bin men or factory workers or other lower paid work

Exactly. Argue for the end of capitalism if you (general you) want. Personally I don't have a problem with capitalism- it's not as if the alternative has ever worked, but it is utterly hypocritical to focus on women who are successful in the way Jane has done.

Should it upset me to pay my window cleaner? Same rate of pay, same job but outdoors...one is a man, the other is a woman.
I sort of see your point, but equally, the cleaner chooses this work, it's more than minimum wage, flexible around other commitments, etc.
Different jobs attract different pay. I don't think the way we pay (as a society) necessarily reflects the value of different work and a large part of that is down to patriarchal values.

Bollocks. Utter bollocks. If it isn't clear to whom I responding, it is Jane.

There is a huge range of skills and abilities in the work force. Offices need cleaners, typists, clerks, admin staff at various levels etc, etc. etc, all of whom support the people at the top of the pyramid who are the ones whose work brings in the cash.

You might as well accuse all of those people of succeeding, partially on the backs of low paid working class people.

The bottom line is if push came to shove I could do these vital but lesser skilled jobs, but the employees in these roles could not do mine.

I would concede some respect for what Jane has posted if it were from a Communist/ Marxist/anti- capitalist point of view that no one should be paid more than anyone else (still as an economic theory bollocks but at least not hypocritically only applied to women)

However, the issue of middle and upper class women succeeding, partially on the backs of low paid working class women is a real one, and although it upsets many to speak about in the feminist movement, and isn't a popular topic for discussion, the conversation needs to be had

This is how the whole capitalist system works though. I'm not saying I agree with it, but the issue about women employing cleaners comes up far more than the existence of bin men or factory workers or other lower paid work.

Yes. You can be a feminist and employ a cleaner, a nanny, a childcarer.

However, the issue of middle and upper class women succeeding, partially on the backs of low paid working class women is a real one, and although it upsets many to speak about in the feminist movement, and isn't a popular topic for discussion, the conversation needs to be had.

I find it's a blind spot in most people's feminism.

My grandmother took a minimum wage job at a discount shop so she could hire a cleaner, she hated housework.

I have chatted to a woman I know about this question more generally, and her perspective was interesting. She grew up in a country where everyone, including professional women, were expected to do their own housework, hiring a cleaner would have been socially unacceptable. She still felt uncomfortable with the whole idea and thought there was significant value in people being directly responsible for the non-glamourous work associated with their own existence. I can see that POV, it can be easy to take for granted that kind of work. On the other hand for middle class people, most probably still have to do the bulk of the daily work of that kind, it's really only the wealthy who can completely turn that kind of thing over to someone else.

My cleaner does a great job doing the things I genuinely don't have time for.
Turns out, after working all day at her job, she doesn't want to clean her own home. So she also employs a cleaner.

If men did cleaning and childcare perhaps we’d see the emergence of the following:

Hygiene Consultant

Bacteria Analysis & Elimination Process Engineer

Domestic Designer

Storage Solution Architects

Refuse Management Design & Execution professionals

Nutrition Manager

Investment in Educational Futures - Research & Delivery

(We’d probably just get the piss taken out of us calling it that, of course)

It seems to be pay exorbitant fees (£40 for two hours?!?) thus preventing women on a lower wage/income from getting a cleaner or check your privilege woman and scrub your own damn toilets!

It says a lot about women's place in society on the outside,paying through the nose(literally or metaphorically) for it or doing it themselves.

I refuse to click on a Guardian article (and I used to be a subscriber) but I got a cleaner so I can spend more time with my mother in the last year or so of her life as well as running a business and coping with an anxious teenager. Is that acceptable?

I can't believe it's 2020 and someone is still asking this.

So who is actually going to do the cleaning then? Maybe all the people who work for the guardian just live in filth? They sure as hell cant all be sharing a house with a man that actually cleans!

I read this yesterday and it was infuriating.

I have a specific skillset. People pay me to use my skills when they could do it themselves but they either lack the time, skills or inclination. Hurray! I give my time and skills, they help pay my mortgage.

I pissing hate cleaning. If I pay a living wage to another person who chooses to earn their living cleaning, how is that any different?

I have a friend who runs a gardening business. Are the people who hire her unfeminist because she does manual labour for them?

Of all the things we should question whether it is acceptable to do, employing a cleaner doesn't even make the list!

Yes, panic - working class women, are never sex workers in the Guardian’s world. It’s all students and high class escorts. And they are never drug addicts, or anything like that.

Re the bare chested Climate Change types - do they honestly think that people wouldn’t immediately clock them as female even with their tops on? It’s madness. Like people who think the only thing that might out them as trans is their paperwork....

Oh,oh I think I know the answer to this!!

Sex workers enjoy what they do and it is an active choice, while cleaning is something that desperate,poor,working class women are forced into and being taken advantage of.

I was about to reply to say that I had thought of taking a cleaning job and I hope that people would find it acceptable to hire me if I did so! But I've realised that's not the point of the thread so I'll go and read the article.

Or where the alternative would be to stay with an abusive man? What about seeing it as me using the additional earning power that I have gained via education to help other women who haven’t got that whatever reason, or who prefer cleaning to other work?

I read that article and I was furious. I employ a female clesner. I pay much more than the minimum wage because I pay what her work is worth to me.

I can no longer keep my home as clean as i like to because of various health issuse. My cleaner needs the money. What's the problem? I'm not exploiting the fact she's female and she's not exploiting the fact I'm old and disabled. It's just a fare exchange in our eyes. Her ability to clean exchanged for my ability to pay