Is it ever acceptable to hire a cleaner?

Do they have a problem with all the cleaners working outside private homes- in offices, hospitals, schools etc. Usually women usually not well paid in the scheme of things.

Or is it only when women hire a cleaner is it a bad thing.

I know men who live alone who have cleaners, I haven't read the article, were they mentioned at all?

The low pay and status of 'women's work' is definitely a feminist issue.

What is also a feminist issue is that women are always to blame, and wrong, for doing things that men/ industry/ workplaces do as well.

Presumably to be a proper feminist I should sack my cleaner, and pay a groom and tradesmen to do the tasks I prefer to do myself outside work. Of course it has to be trades men. But I should be ok with a female groom because that sounds like something a man would employ.

Instead of a job close to home, earning more than living wage, guaranteed hours, flexible employer, bringing dc with her if she wants etc, my now ex cleaner can work a zero hour contract for nmw, pay for childcare, and commute at least 90 minutes a day. Or double that when nmw and zero hours aren't compatible with running a car. Or indeed when childcare doesn't fit with zero hours and/or shit rural public transport she could live in poverty. But as long as she is employed by a male dominated company that's the main thing.

Or is feminism also responsible for zero hour contracts, nmw, poverty, and the quality of life available to low paid workers?

A living wage isn't an arbitrary rate.

Having a cleaner isn't a right.

I don't mind if you are feminist or not, Dances, that's up to you.

It's just bizarre to claim as feminist the perspective that the economic exploitation of women's labour is not a feminist concern.

I'm tough, I clean bare-hand. No rubber gloves for me!

Fucking hell! What's wrong with being a cleaner? It sometimes pays more than a job in retail.

I clean the loo in our house and the hob and oven. I also clean both cars because I have high standards, this isn't sexist, it is just because my DW doesn't want to do it.

I've never had a cleaner because I could never afford one.
I have no problem with anyone employing one because it's a job I would be prepared to do and would consider valuable and dignified.
In fact it would be great if people would only employ people to do jobs they would be prepared to do themselves, under the same conditions and with the same working relationship. Barring anyone who happens to relish being degraded, tortured or such like...
That might improve conditions for some cleaners and a whole lot of sex workers.

What has hiring a cleaner go to do with feminism?

I am a female small business owner supporting another female small business owner who happens to be a cleaner and has set something up that helps her to work around her childcare and employs other local women sounds pretty feminist to me!

Tbh I think you can be a feminist and at times,for various reasons, make unfeminist choices. Not that hiring a cleaner is one of them.

However the idea that unless you are a woman wealthy enough to pay an arbitrary "going rate" for a service provided by another woman really bugs me.

At the end of the day the article is just a bullshit promotion for a book. A book going for £13 . Why is it not free if it's so essential we check our privilege and reconsider our choices for the good of all women?

Feminism isn't pick and choose, Dances.

Yes, in a capitalist culture, individual women can choose to make non-feminist choices that suit them best. Just because it's their choice, doesn't make it feminism.

Personally, I feel that men should also be held to a feminist standard re female labor.

What has hiring a cleaner go to do with feminism?

We have a cleaner but me and DH both used go clean. In an interesting twist my cleaners DH comes and does generally diy handyman type stuff too. Should either of us feel guilty?

I'm not here for conversations which deny there is a historical and current undervaluing of work that is done mostly by women.

That's a conservative talking point, not a feminist one.

Employing your own cleaner doesn't happen in a social, economic or ethical vacuum.

There is absolutely no shame in cleaning

I didn't say there was. I've cleaned. It's a lot more dignified than plenty of other work. I'd quite enjoy cleaning again.

As for pink collar work........an unskilled labourer on a building site will only earn minimum wage. Out in all weathers with little respect from the skilled workers.........I know what I'd rather do. And it doesn't involve ending up up to my tits in mud. 💁🏻‍♀️

That women's work is devalued, and that some women are complicit in that devaluing is neither anti-woman nor irrelevant.

Cant hiring a cleaner be a good thing

I've cleaned myself. I actually quite like cleaning. I think its acceptable to employ a cleaner. I'd like a cleaner too, but I'm not in a position to employ a cleaner for a living wage. So I do my own cleaning.

It's not a choice, however, that is somehow outside feminism. That's just libfem choice bullshit.

You can be a feminist and employ a cleaner (who is more likely to be female) if you bring your feminist ethics to the act of employing her.

Many women don't.

Considering the issue of how we, as feminists, treat our female employees, is not somehow outside the remit of feminism.

Good cleaners round here charge £13 pH minimum. They're well respected and can pick and choose their clients........a lot of micro businesses have sprung up in the last few years. Women who started off cleaning to make a bit extra have found they're bloody good at it and have gone on to employing other people.

There is absolutely no shame in cleaning. Or employing somebody to clean for you.

Idid say it was an unpopular topic of discussion! I've been round this one before

I think that unless you couple your argument with an anti- capitalist/ pro- Marxist argument it is not so much an "unpopular topic" as a profoundly anti- women and irrelevant topic.

Cant hiring a cleaner be a good thing? Paying a woman money for working hours that work for her and enabling her the freedom a wage brings?

I dont have a cleaner btw but would rather like one.

I did say it was an unpopular topic of discussion! I've been round this one before.

Pink collar work, mostly done by women, is undervalued and underpaid. There's a pay gap, actually, between the bin man and the cleaner. This is feminism 101 - women's work is devalued in comparison to men's work. We can all acknowledge this happens, right? We are on a feminism board, so presumably no-one is going to dispute this? Only last year, my own union had to fight for pay parity between a (99% female) occupation and a (99% male) occupation which had been classed at the same level for decades.

Given that pink collar work, including domestic cleaning, aged care, childcare, is historically and currently undervalued as work done by women, feminists CAN employ these workers privately while retaining a sense of feminist ethics if they make sure they are the kind of employers who don't inadvertently reinforce the pink collar gap.

I don't care how successful you are as an individual, if you are paying your cleaner or your nanny or your nursery worker what is objectively sht for dealing with your or your children's sht, or their conditions have not been considered by you in the light of the ongoing devaluing of women's work, then you are not employing as a feminist.

It's feminist, for example, to lobby and act for better pay for nursery workers. It's feminist to pay other women a living wage. Doing that already? No drama. Not doing it? Ok. But also not feminist.

WTAF?
I was a cleaner until I had to give up work due to disability.
I now have a cleaner, she's been with me for three and a half years and has become one if my closest friends.
She's self employed and makes a good living.