Labour suspends Trevor Phillips because he identified who made up child grooming gangs

the reluctance of the police to call out muslim men in northern towns was as much if not more to do with a fear of a white backlash than of being PC PC's.

But is that really what the police feared? So where was the white backlash when the police did finally take action, and the first convictions hit the headlines in 2010? Or during the following years as the ever-increasing number of grooming rings were revealed?

We're always being warned, by middle-class media commentators, about the dreaded "white backlash". They're not talking about themselves, so it's pretty clear they mean a white working-class backlash. And yet it never actually happens.

I'd say it's really about middle-class fear of the working class. And contempt -- just read anything on the subject in The Guardian. In fact, the same attitude that actually stopped professionals investigating child abuse.

Wikipedia gives what looks to me like a pretty accurate account: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

Quoting from the Jay and Casey reports published in 2014 and 2015:
"The failure to address the abuse was attributed to a combination of factors revolving around race, class and gender—contemptuous and sexist attitudes toward the mostly working-class victims; fear that the perpetrators' ethnicity would trigger allegations of racism and damage community relations; the Labour council's reluctance to challenge a Labour-voting ethnic minority; lack of a child-centred focus; a desire to protect the town's reputation; and lack of training and resources."

Fantastic post Talking

Thank you

When was it ever not?

In the survey below, Labour got 85% of the Muslim vote.

www.brin.ac.uk/religious-affiliation-and-party-choice-at-the-2017-general-election/

Only 26% of the Jewish vote.

Good post talking

Ann Cryer was vilified for trying to highlight this issue when she was Labour MP. Labour are staring down the barrel of electoral oblivion because they are dominated by people who think Twitter represents mainstream public opinion. As for the laughable post about the 'right wing media?' Sorry. Those cliched bait and smear tactics aren't working. Anymore.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4780326/Branded-racist-trying-save-girls-vile-abusers.html

Islam is no more or less patriarchal than Christianity or Judaism. Conservative Islam is as misgynistic as any other kind of conservative religion.

Absolutely true in terms of the origins of all three religions. The difference is that Christianity, in most parts of the western world at least, has evolved to a fair extent, as has Judaism. Still patriarchal but Christian women in Europe are no longer expected to cover their hair as they were in the Middle Ages, for example. I think we all know there are some significant differences between the status - legal, and socio-economic - of women in Western European countries, and in many majority Muslim countries.

Of course Christianity can still be deeply oppressive and misogynist - look at many of the countries in Latin America, for example - but there was a Reformation in the west, and the gradual evolution of democracy alongside that means that while patriarchy is indeed still embedded at a deeper level, cultural attitudes are nonetheless different, and less overtly misogynist than those in countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc.

The problem is religious fundamentalism of all types (and not just in the three religions “of the Book”). The type of Christianity that predominates here in the UK is not the fundamentalist kind.

Islam, however, has never undergone any kind of reformation, as Aayan Hirsi Ali noted in 2015, when she called for that very thing to happen in her book Heretic. While there are a significant number of liberal Muslims, studies, including the one in 2016 show that Muslims on the whole are more socially conservative than the rest of the UK population.

52 per cent believed homosexuality should not be legal in Britain, 39 per cent agreed “wives should always obey their husbands”, and 31 per cent said it was acceptable for a man to have more than one wife.

iramramzan.wordpress.com/2016/05/17/what-do-british-muslims-really-think/

I believe we do ourselves and our sisters of Muslim origin a great disservice when we pretend there is not a serious clash between progressive British values and the attitudes in a large section of the Muslim community. Liberal Muslim women get it in the neck both ways - as much victims of genuine Islamophobia as any other Muslim, but often marginalised and isolated within their own communities for going against the grain too. We don’t stand with them by denying there’s an issue there.

Go into any secondary school in certain parts of West Yorkshire and witness the abuse that female teachers have to put up with from teenage boys from the local Pakistani community. It is absolutely shocking and terrifying.

I grew up in an area with a large Muslim population. The openly expressed attitude of some Muslim men towards women is absolutely disgusting and it is more prevalent and tolerated than in other communities. Let's not pretend it isn't. You are doing victims of abuse a great disservice if you refuse to let them speak openly about the facts surrounding their abuse.

Yy to this Clymene

Hear hear.

Indeed. I don't want to be part of a Labour Party that has no place in it for Trevor Phillips.

Sarah Champion was forced out of labour's shadow cabinet by JC. She technically resigned but then later admitted she was forced out and said that JC had no idea about what communities outside of metropolitan areas like London were like.
That was the moment I knew that i could never vote for Labour under JC. It was so obvious that one of the key learnign points of the Rotherham, and other area, child abuse scandals was that people must not be made to feel afraid to speak out when they see this happening for fear of being called a racist. And here he was making a public example of someone for talking about about how we need to address the ethnic cultural issues which led to these groups of men to think it was ok to do what they do. How can we prevent future offending if we refuse to recognise all the factors that led to the offending?

Now the labour party have just shown me how I can't vote for them ever again. Or at least not unless they change into a completely different party.

Of course, the links to the gender ideology issues are also obvious.
Self identified woke lefties, prepared to put aside the safe guarding of women and girls, so that they can maintain their own identities of wokeness and the cult of 'inclusion'.

I'm so done with the the left,. I really am. They have really proved themselves to be a bunch of unprincipled, illogical, irrational, incoherent, self-obsessed idiots. They are more motivated by maintaining the internal sense of self they want to have than of actual speaking out for the most vulnerable. I'm done.

Interestingly, and unsurprisingly, the real life lefties I know who are pro gender ideology also refuse to recognise the cultural element to the sex scandal. Talk about failing to learn lessons.

Trevor Phillips might have been a long-standing member of the Labour Party but as far back as I can remember, he never let his political philosophy influence his observations which were carefully thought out, measured, grounded in fact and non-partisan. That was why he was - and still is - hugely respected right across the political spectrum.

If there is no place in the Labour Party for someone like Trevor Phillips, then there is no hope for any of us - and I speak as a Conservative. I have no more wish to live in a one-party state than anyone else. It is not the foundation of a healthy democracy. Yet we are on our way to becoming one.

There are decent people in the Labour Party. I know there are. They need to speak up for Trevor Phillips and they need to take back their party.

I realise I shouldn’t say this but I’ve always felt that Trevor gets away with saying what he does, not only because it all makes such good sense but also because he is black.

He referenced the long history of Islam in his genes, interrupted by a bit of trans Atlantic slavery, on the Today programme.

Me 3!

If we must have a symbolic lefty granddad I'd rather have Phillips as mine than Corbyn!

100%!!

Islam is no more or less patriarchal than Christianity or Judaism. Conservative Islam is as misgynistic as any other kind of conservative religion.

The problem is Baraderi and control of mosques, around a third of which in the UK still have no provided space for women to pray.

And the reluctance of the police to call out muslim men in northern towns was as much if not more to do with a fear of a white backlash than of being PC PC's.

@MidnightJasmine Also in the North and I wrote to my MP asking for her definition of womanhood. Not a peep. Nothing on her social media or website, either.

@MangoesAreMyFavourite I did not do that. Please do not accuse me of excusing abuse when I did no such thing. Bloody strawman if ever there was one.

If we must have a symbolic lefty granddad I'd rather have Phillips as mine than Corbyn!

If it's a conspiracy by the right wing press, it means that Labour is controlled by the right wing press.

Nobody complained about Phillips, Labour spontaneously decided his thinking needed checked and suspended him.

Anybody who thinks its a conspiracy is saying that Momentum is controlled by the Conservatives.

Logic, but not as we know it.

Like, you know the stages of grief? They've been stuck in "denial" for months.

I grew up in an area with a large Muslim population. The openly expressed attitude of some Muslim men towards women is absolutely disgusting and it is more prevalent and tolerated than in other communities. Let's not pretend it isn't. You are doing victims of abuse a great disservice if you refuse to let them speak openly about the facts surrounding their abuse.

Sorry, the right wing press has made labour send Phillips an 11 page letter detailing his Islamophobia?

And it's all because they hate Magic Granddad!

I feel like there's a significant portion of the Labour faithful that needs some sort of counselling to come to terms with the fact that it wasn't a vast right wing conspiracy that robbed them of victory, they cocked it up themselves.

alloutoffucks You would hope so but in the context of this discussion your comment gave only a partially accurate summary of those reports.