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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Just tell me I didn’t want their stupid job anyway.

41 replies

Lordfrontpaw · 03/03/2020 19:55

So I applied for a job. All going well with the forms until I got to the ‘about you’ section

I was asked my sex and it was explained that HMRC only GIVES 2 OPTIONS

Then came - in roughly this order - am I trans? What is my gender, did I have school lunches (that would be back in the 70/80s), what did my dad do (Christ sake he died almost 20 years ago), what’s my religion, and a million other things (the very last one being did I consider myself disabled).

I answered ‘prefer not to say’ to all except the gender one where they thoughtfully had an option of a free text box.

I blew it didn’t I?

OP posts:
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Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 04/03/2020 13:22

Not if they only ask one sex-based question and more on gender. Then it means nothing really if 'female' can mean either sex.

Are any small to medium-sized private companies ever asked to produce stats anyway?

OP posts:
deydododatdodontdeydo · 04/03/2020 13:08

The fact is that the questions are all about box ticking and quotas.

If they didn't worry about box ticking and quotas, women would still be being excluded from many workplaces (more so than now).

Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 04/03/2020 12:59

I was reading about a speaker at an event this week. She went to uni, has a thriving business - so on paper, her children would be the same as, say Richard Branson's kids?

Her biog reads - 'The youngest of 11 children, her parents didn’t have enough funds for her to even start secondary school, so she, along with her mother, went to the public dump in Trinidad to ‘hustle’ through large mounds of waste and rubbish, looking for empty bottles to sell...'

So it's not all black and white really.

OP posts:
IamNotDarling · 04/03/2020 12:51

The parents job question is about social mobility.

Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 04/03/2020 12:36

Management Consultants (the very last word in PC)

OP posts:
Sheshehe · 04/03/2020 12:36

BBC?

LeftHandDown · 04/03/2020 11:41

@crustycrab. I hadn't been asked to an interviews, just sent the equality form after applying for a job. Seems an awful lot of bother and a waste of time for everybody if every applicant is sent equality forms if they're not going to bother interviewing.

In small companies, that don't have separate HR depts, is not unimaginable that the person interviewing also has access to any equality forms.

Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 04/03/2020 07:41

It’s odd. If quotas are being measured why is sex in there almost apologetically (HMRC only give is 2 options) but the gender one had about 6 options. Why is that important above options that could actually have lifelong consequences (poverty, disability, etc)

In this one they didn’t ask sexual orientation which you used to see sometimes.

OP posts:
BringbackLang · 04/03/2020 07:34

Woke not women Hmm

BringbackLang · 04/03/2020 07:34

I recently filled out a job application that asked for my gender and did I identify with the gender I was assigned at birth, it was for a women county council. I ticked prefer not to say, got an interview though.

Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 04/03/2020 07:31

And I generally come across well in interviews thank you very much. Pondering the questions asked - and the order in which they were asked - on a monitoring form on an anonymous online forum isn’t quite the same is it?

OP posts:
Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 04/03/2020 07:30

Wasn’t HMRC! I said before - it asked for sex but only gave 2 options, which it said was because HMRC only offered 2 options. It was a management consultant.

OP posts:
crustycrab · 04/03/2020 00:03

Out of interest though, what HMRC job were you applying for that isn't civil service?

crustycrab · 04/03/2020 00:02

@LeftHandDown

"I ticked prefer not to say and unsurprisingly I didn't hear anything back."

Why unsurprisingly? It's rare for these forms to go to the person interviewing you, they're just (clumsily) doing data collection to see if they are appealing to the candidates they're trying to recruit.

It's so much more likely that you didn't get the job simply because you weren't the best candidate.

OP if you came across in interview like you have on here then I'd suspect that has more to do with it than the form.

CorianderLord · 03/03/2020 23:53

No, they're just to monitor diversity etc... they'll still hire you if you're the best candidate.

Ridiculous thread

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 03/03/2020 23:50

Isn't part of the point of the "triggering" concept that you won't necessarily know what's triggering for other people? So it's a bit silly to be all "well those questions were obviously triggering but you're being petty to have been bothered by this one".

Beamur · 03/03/2020 23:45

I tick 'prefer not to say' on almost everything now.
Unless I am asked what sex I am. That I will (usually) answer.

Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 03/03/2020 22:55

‘Really get a sense of perspective’ wasn’t referring to me? Oh well I must’ve misunderstood.

The questions about family (also marital status) came under the gender (the first thing they asked was ‘are you trans?’ Then about gender ID, then sex) and disability one was last.

So I was irritated being asked an irrelevance like gender/ID in the first instance, while an aspect that is pretty important - and a group who needs to be ‘included’ - was bottom of the whole form.

It appears that some things are seen as more important than others.

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DidoLamenting · 03/03/2020 22:47

Dido - you don’t know my background or what may or may not ‘trigger’ me (but I’m an big old girl so nosey questions about my childhood don’t bother me)

Gosh posts are so often taken to be about "me, me, me" on here. I wasn't remotely referring to you or your background.

I assume the question about school lunches was trying to find out whether the applicant qualified for free school lunches. The question about father's occupation is utterly irrelevant to a job application.

You have a startling lack of imagination if you can't imagine that many applicants would not want to answer or even be able to answer those questions.

There is plenty to object to on an objective level on that application form. The gender issue is petty and irrelevant.

Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 03/03/2020 22:38

Dido - you don’t know my background or what may or may not ‘trigger’ me (but I’m an big old girl so nosey questions about my childhood don’t bother me).

The fact is that the questions are all about box ticking and quotas.

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Original poster
Lordfrontpaw · 03/03/2020 22:33

No the sex question was just on there - they asked sex and explained that the 2 options were the only ones HMRC accepted!

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NearlyGranny · 03/03/2020 22:16

There needs to be a box for 'fluid' so they get advance warning that your name and preferred pronouns will be liable to change with the wind direction. That should keep HR on the hop!

DidoLamenting · 03/03/2020 22:09

I wish the option was ‘dont know’

I think that application form is absolutely foul , and making a big deal out of the gender question is petty and trivial.

For several of those questions for many people the answer will be "I don't know".

Really get a sense of perspective- there was a silly question which you can easily ignore and intrusive and potentially triggering questions about the applicant's childhood but the silly gender one is the one you think is worth complaining about.

NanFlanders · 03/03/2020 22:06

It's fine. I've been involved in a few civil service recruitment exercises. It's just to monitor diversity and social mobility. The actual postholders won't even see it. (I always cross out 'gender' and put 'sex' too..) Good luck with your application!

JoJothesquirrel · 03/03/2020 21:59

You said it was HMRC, that’s civil service. And they ask what level of education your parents had because it’s an indicator of social mobility.
And I know not filling it in makes no odds.

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