‘Woman or person who gave birth’

No. I’ve been a patient on one several times. I didn’t expect to see any labouring men there.

Do you work on a maternity ward?

It’s hard on a maternity ward!

Calling people something they feel uncomfortable with and have asked not to be referred to by is not nice, that’s basic manners. If you can call people by their nicknames because they don’t like their actual name, something I do every day as a healthcare provider, then you can call someone a person instead of a woman. It’s not hard.

" Be nice", fuck that, I'm not nice

I don’t think it’s particularly nice for Male bodied ppl to force their way into our changing rooms/shortlists/refuges/female prisons etc

It’s only ever women who are asked to be nice, to sacrifice their spaces & language & terminology

Being nice has brought us to the point where a council can’t even fly a flag saying “woman = Adult human female” without being piled on & made to take it down for being hateful

Where are the instructions for trans ppl to be nice to women? Or don’t we count?

Jesus, there’s the fecking “nice” thing again

Why should a transmen have more rights to offend people than women? Why are their feelings more important?

Women calling themselves women is not designed to make anyone else feel crap. We are not responsible for people who get upset about biological reality. We didn’t invent it.

“Elsie, my explanation about my objections is clear enough. I am not going to deny biology just because it might upset someone. If a transman gets pregnant then they are a pregnant women, if being referred to as such upsets them, then tough fucking titty.”

It costs nothing to be nice, life is difficult enough as it is without making people feel like crap because “I can because what I’m saying is a fact”. There’s plenty of things we could call or say to people because they’re facts, but we don’t because it’s not nice.

It is not nice or kind to refer to a human female as a birth giver to appease someone who deliberately gets pregnant whilst insisting they’re a man.
It’s incredibly insulting to women. Why does the tiny minority need to be pandered to, and women everywhere told to stop being big meanies by calling themselves women?

Be nice. Why do we have to be uncomfortable or cross our fingers to accommodate someone who won’t accept reality (but may change their mind later on and sue people)

The word is 'mother'. Even the law isn't arguing with that one.

What sort of thought process let’s you feel happier about the whole birth process if you’re referred to as a man?
I mean, of all the things that could be “triggering” for someone delivering a baby who insists they’re aren’t actually female - the wording on a form will be the biggest thing?
It’s a very insidious thing. Like drips from a tap that are barely significant in themselves but manage to flood the floor eventually when combined together.

The thing is, in an effort to be nice to transmen, you are now forcing gender on people who are incredibly uncomfortable with gender

Why can't you just be nice and stop trying to make the word woman mean something it doesn't?
Why can't you be nice and stop offending people?

They might not be comfortable at being referred to as a woman but MEN DO NOT GIVE BIRTH! Biology doesn’t give a crap about feelings.

It’s a hell of a mental pretzel - so they (‘man’) gets pregnant by another man? How does that happen?

Elsie, my explanation about my objections is clear enough. I am not going to deny biology just because it might upset someone. If a transman gets pregnant then they are a pregnant women, if being referred to as such upsets them, then tough fucking titty.

“Elsie, it's the denial of immutable biological facts that pisses me off and an expectation that I am to play along with it. Woman are adult human females and it is only women that get pregnant.
If a woman wishes to identify as a man fine, but don't expect people to refer to them as otherwise if, when pregnant, they are referred to as a pregnant woman because that's what they are.”

No one is denying that biological women are the only people who can get pregnant, everyone understands this. All that is happening is some biological women do not feel comfortable being referred to as women so are being called “people” on forms instead, it’s really not that big of a deal as it affects no one but them.

If you don’t believe that trans men or women should be referred to as anything other than their birth sex no matter how much it distresses them then that’s your choice, but if other people are happy to call them people instead then why not let them? Why does it matter if we call a pregnant trans man a person rather than a woman? If doing that makes them feel much happier and comfortable then why not? What makes your opinion on this matter, which has literally nothing to do with or any effect on you, more important than the people who it actually involves e.g. trans men and their healthcare providers?

it's the denial of immutable biological facts that pisses me off and an expectation that I am to play along with it. Woman are adult human females and it is only women that get pregnant. If a woman wishes to identify as a man fine, but don't expect people to refer to them as otherwise if, when pregnant, they are referred to as a pregnant woman because that's what they are.
This sums it up perfectly. Well said!

I suspect the medical term may be wanker but I could be wrong...

@Lordfrontpaw

What about ‘ejaculator’?

My hubby would be seething!

I would write "it's always a woman who gives birth, but thank you." Like Janet from The Good Place when she has to keep reminding people she's not a girl/hologram/robot.

Oh no - worse still ‘person who produced the sperm’

How did they ask about the dad? Sperm giver?