How are we the same?

But @Fieldofgreencorn 99% of transwomen still have a penis. More than 90% have not even taken hormones.

@Bowermansnose Several of my girlfriends never ever wear skirts or makeup. Skirts and makeup is not how you define a woman. My own mum has not worn any makeup for years and rarely wears skirts or dresses 👗.

@Barracker

Perfect. Simply perfect

So the question isn't 'how are we the same' and trying to figure that out as if it's a genuine issue to consider: the real question is why does a political lobby wish to enforce the belief that females may not be separate from males as a class? And hurl rattles out of the pram when there's a suggestion that this is bollocks, and therefore they're not successfully exerting the power to enforce it?

There has been a powerful example on this thread that those arguing for this don't care about the people they claim to; they care about the politics and the wanted political outcomes. And that's all.

Which is why those regarded as a 'traitor to the cause' from the group this political lobby claim to care about so passionately are slammed with more venom than even shown to GC women. Because it punches a huge hole in the narrative. It isn't about caring about anyone, that's just a very useful red herring. It's about enforcing politics. And that's all.

The violence that TW experience arises out of homophobia, not misogyny — a revulsion by men toward males who stray beyond the bounds of acceptable masculinity.

Certain people really need to stop believing that most TW are read by the general public as women. Sure, in two-dimensional insta-filtered photographs with scarves of hands tucked around the neck, they might. But in three-dimensions, actually moving through physical space? The percentage read as women there is going to very small because of the myriad differences in male and female physiology.

In three-dimensions space, TW have more in common with gay men than with women. Gay men, too, experience violence in men’s toilets and men’s prisons.

Strangely, though, gay men don’t demand access to women’s toilets or women’s prisons.

The ONLY thing TW and women share is a claim to be women. Only one of those claims is grounded in reality.

Of course there is also the fact both women and trans women regularly fall victim to male violence.

So do men.

Blimey Aesop!!! That needs a warning.......

I want Mermaid stickers.

.. You can have your ‘approved by mumsnet feminists’ badge...

I fucking want one of those.

Yes Bunbury. Fine with me.

You have to love it when a transwoman gives their POV and derisively gets told off by a non trans person for having Wrong Views and being the Wrong Kind of Trans, with downright personal abuse. Hamster was bloody gracious about it but that was appallingly rude. Very clear there are Right Views and Wrong Views and not people allowed to think different things for those who represent the political extremist POV.

Two things to add here:

1. Screenshots.
2. Discussions about bits, lady or otherwise, usually get deleted. It's a good way to kill an inconvenient thread.

Bunbury.

The comments that

Women tend to prefer dresses and makeup and
The company of other women

Are both rather sexist from my perspective

I suppose it does lead me to one similarity. I wear a dress and makeup for work, used to wear heels. It did feel like putting on a costume of sorts, performing femininity.

But then anyone can perform femininity, men women transpeople anyone.

So that's not what it is.

It's also irrelevant, because as I said upthread, most transwomen still have penises.

Unless you're defining 'transwoman' as 'person with a surgically created neovagina'. Sensible as that might be, the TRAs would consider it very transphobic.

As most transwomen have penises, having a 'vagina'/hole/however you want to describe it isn't something that they as a class share with women as a class.

Do you really have no idea that yours was the incredibly stupid comment, Fieldofgreycorn? Really? That’s a quite staggering lack of self-awareness.

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised by your ability to delude yourself, given the beliefs you hold.

But hold off on attributing the stupidity to other people, when you are the culprit here.

An actual vagina bears little resemblance to a surgically created hole.

You may as well compare it to a bellybutton

They don’t necessarily have ‘men put dick in’. But topographically it is something they have in common with women and not men. You’re reducing it to holes and dicks now.

What a stupid conversation. An hour of my life I won’t get back.

Any perceived similarities will be ones that are acted out,worn or surgically created.

I count one transman as a friend (only met him after transition so I never knew him as a woman) and he's a lovely person. I count one transwomen as a professional acquaintance and have the utmost respect for her skills. My sample is minuscule!

I would say the main thing we all have in common, along with men who are born men and happy with it, is varying degrees of vulnerability to endemic male violence.

I have never routinely gone in fear of anything else in life except shark attack in tropical waters. The feeling is pretty much the same. You know you're statistically not likely to be a victim, but you know they're out there and you expend mental energy exercising vigilance and managing your fear when in risky territory.

Biologically 100% shared Human DNA

What about the clownfish 🤔

Yes, and your answer was 'an extra hole for men to put a dick in'.

Nice.

Yes we’re well aware of the differences between women and TW. There are many of them.

The question was: what do trans women have in common with women that they don’t have in common with other [sic] men.

You wrote an entire post that characterised female anatomy in terms of whether it could penetrate, or be penetrated, and what the external portion looks like aesthetically.
Forgive me if I concluded that you hadn't quite grasped the irrelevance of this penetration/cosmetic appearance concept to female anatomy and function.

As for HRT, it's irrelevant to my measure of femaleness, and I speak as someone who went through premature menopause, and for whom it is advised and prescribed to prevent adverse health consequences. My female body failed to continue to produce my own hormones earlier than is physiologically natural. I replace my hormones to the level that I ought to be experiencing for a female of my age, to prevent heart disease and osteoporosis which are known consequences of early menopause.

I'd be as female with or without it. Taking oestrogen to replace my oestrogen deficiency improves my health, much as replacing thyroxine improves my thyroxine deficiency.