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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

OK the whole drag story time thing

245 replies

Qcng · 01/03/2020 08:26

I've seen posts on this board before basically completely denouncing drag story time, but I've never really gone along with the perspective that it's such an oh so terrible thing. So I don't join in on those threads. As GC as anyone I actually think, dressing up is fine for girls and boys, these people aren't trying to send a message to children that it's big hair and fake lashes that actually make you a woman, (unlike say, someone like Caitlyn Jenner would send that message). They're sending a message that boys can do dress up too, that being gay is ok, and being a man in makeup is ok.

Anyway, I came across an article (posted by a GC feminist who was rather sarcastic and not at all sympathetic) where the drag queen received online abuse after attending a school for drag story time. So that's what got me thinking really, I don't think anyone should be on the receiving end of a torrent of abuse over something like drag.

I know drag itself is for adults, sexually charged, drugs involved etc and I am completely against "Desmond" and "Lactasia" (sp?) I would never in a million years want children to be encouraged to do drag or be in that scene at all under the age of 18.
Drag story time isn't encouraging that though surely? Like having a clown do tricks in a school, they aren't there saying "you should all start learning to juggle and paint your face now".

In the school setting the drag queens are literally just reading a story, usually with a positive LGB message. They aren't making crude jokes and won't use their same stage name (EG "Flow Job" is just "Flow" and "Popping Cherry" is just "Cherry" etc etc)

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that DQ story time isn't actually that bad, and in fact does send children a positive message particularly to the gender non confirming/LGB/those with LGB family members?

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Thelnebriati · 01/03/2020 10:37

There are two comments on the first page, one in the OP, which amount to 'I know Drag is adult entertainment but surely they wouldn't go that far in front of kids, would they''?

I think you need a wake up call.

Grooming makes it socially acceptable for adults to participate in risky and sexually charged behaviours involving children, or to turn a blind eye to them;
Grooming also makes it socially unacceptable to challenge participants or to uphold safeguarding.

Non-contact abuse involves activities where there is no physical contact. Non-contact abuse includes exposing children to sexual activity.
learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-abuse-and-neglect/child-sexual-abuse/

RuffleCrow · 01/03/2020 10:32

Oh don't be daft. You know promoting a set of highly sexualised and sexist stereotypes about women to children is a terrible idea.

If you're still feigning ignorance just substitute 'women' for 'disabled people' or 'black people'. Still think it's about empowering boys to be different?! Thought not.

Winesalot · 01/03/2020 10:27

Might I suggest searching drag kids and find the video of young Desmond dancing for money.

I can imagine that there is really only one reason that a child is encouraged to emulate a hypersexual culture in the name of dressing up.

ArranUpsideDown · 01/03/2020 10:23

There's a MN thread about one of the videos mentioned above:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3836323-Disturbing-film-of-child-being-involved-in-drag-queen-performance

Our school has a specialist centre and 62% of our children have an SEND of some description. I wish the drive for diversity extended to people like them.

It feels like some diversities are more equal than others doesn't it - and some are just so much more attractive with which to align yourself and invite along to libraries etc.

Clymene · 01/03/2020 10:23

In what other context would it be okay for men who make their living as adult entertainers to go into schools and have time with small children? Do we not question the motives of men if they're wearing glitter?

That's how BA ended up hiring a paedophile to represent them at Pride and Houston library had one reading to children. Because they were wearing glitter, no one thought to ask if actually they had a predilection for raping children.

If I had an unhealthy interest in small children, DQSH would seem like a pretty quick and easy way to get close to them. Much easier than becoming a scout leader or priest though we know those are popular choices.

CallofDoodee · 01/03/2020 10:15

So actual real women aren't capable of having big personalities or wearing extravagant clothes? They are too dowdy and boring to be able to read a story engagingly to children? A grotesque parody if a woman is better? Ffs.

Yep, apparently so. I mean having just Mhairi Black on her own, a lesbian who became an Member of Parliament at the age of just 20, would just be, like, soooooooo duuuuuullllll. We need to throw in a male adult entertainer who appears to have a drug habit to spice things up a bit! Cos... Glitter, innit?!

FamilyOfAliens · 01/03/2020 10:08

So they shout that they are teaching their children about diversity. What do they exactly mean by this? Why men dressing like women? Why not someone with no legs or blind reading Braille? Why someone who is dyslexic or has a stutter?

Our school has a specialist centre and 62% of our children have an SEND of some description. I wish the drive for diversity extended to people like them.

Lordfrontpaw · 01/03/2020 09:50

In ye olden days, a man prancing around and wiggling his bum at little girls would have had the parents after him with pitchforks.

SarahTancredi · 01/03/2020 09:49

That would be classes as non contact child abuse wouldnt it?

Lordfrontpaw · 01/03/2020 09:47

I can only imagine when that kid grows up and the lawsuits are a rolling in, mum and dad will accidentally delete the footage and say it didn’t happen.

‘Mom - remember when you got that man to do a lap dance for my 5th birthday and I’d asked for Barbie?‘
‘No honey, it was barbie! A girl Barbie! She was barbie! In a long dress. Barbie. Don’t you remember she did a little Ballet dance for you? Not a man in hotpants.’

Lordfrontpaw · 01/03/2020 09:45

It’s a bit of a dumb down. They don’t teach the children a little dinosaurs, plants or the planets. They teach that a strange man all dressed up can be fun and your best mate!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 01/03/2020 09:45

Looking at videos like the one with the kid in the chair and the drag queen in the booty shorts all I can think is that this has nothing to do with the children at all, this is about the (really quite boring, probably didn't even know drag existed until RuPaul put it on telly) parents celebrating how proud they feel of themselves for being so cool and open minded.

OhHolyJesus · 01/03/2020 09:41

I am anti DQST for many reason, most of them listed here, but what drew my attention to all this was the 3 (or was it 4?) sex offenders in Houston Library doing it.

No, they weren't alone with the children and no, not a single child was sexually assaulted or physically harmed, (bet they each went home and got off on it and relived the experience though) it's the blindness that descends when it's lgbT where everyone stops asking basic safeguarding questions and invites the Fox into the hen house that gets me.

Then I started reading and seeing more and more. It's not the same as one panto dame amongst a whole cast (where Peter Pan is a woman) and you can shorten Diamond Goodrim to Diamond and Flow Job to Flo and 'desexualise' it all you like but it's still misogynistic and based in adult entertainment and frankly confusing and not all that great if the adult reading is making it about themselves.

When it was the anniversary of the moon landings and someone thinks, oh I know we will get a man in a dress, make up and heels to read a story and twerk to kids I just don't see the train of thought being all that sensible. How about someone in a tin foil and cardboard box space suit comes in as an astronaut to send the message that you can reach for the moon and be anything you like?

Call it diversity if you like but that is a stretch as it's just completely unrelated.

Lordfrontpaw · 01/03/2020 09:41

It would have scared me. You could say the same thing about clowns.

EverardDigby · 01/03/2020 09:40

Because they look all glittery and colourful and have an extravagant personality. Children like that sort of thing.

Children are not all the same. I would have hated it and felt very uncomfortable.

Mockersisrightasusual · 01/03/2020 09:38

It is a widely held view that teaching A Levels is very difficult but anyone can do early years.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 01/03/2020 09:36

We got shouted at by a ‘diverse’ woman who said DQ didn’t need training they taught themselves how to teach children about diversity and gender fluidity because there are DIVERSE!

Gosh, think of how much money we could save on teacher training courses.

Lordfrontpaw · 01/03/2020 09:36

So they shout that they are teaching their children about diversity. What do they exactly mean by this? Why men dressing like women? Why not someone with no legs or blind reading Braille? Why someone who is dyslexic or has a stutter?

Why teach kids to be kind and understanding when you can teach them to be sassy and bitchy

LowcaAndroidow · 01/03/2020 09:34

I’m just a bit confused by it, when did this become a thing? What is the aim?

I’m not especially anti-drag (don’t really have an opinion about drag or any interest in it) but it is an adult entertainment where men dress as a parody of a sexualised woman Confused

I’m just not seeing the link between that and reading stories to 5 year olds.

Lordfrontpaw · 01/03/2020 09:34

I assume it was the mum (or whoever booked the act) that was bopping on the side?

LiterallyProblematic · 01/03/2020 09:32

We leafleted at a drag queen story time yesterday. It was great. We got shouted at by a ‘diverse’ woman who said DQ didn’t need training they taught themselves how to teach children about diversity and gender fluidity because there are DIVERSE!
The saddest part was the 30something parents walking in with their very small children claiming to be more open minded and accepting than us (religious bigots...whatever). They must have had pause fir thought though. The parents in that dreadful video of the little girl in a chair being danced at look very uncomfortable. Deep down they know it isn’t right.

Lordfrontpaw · 01/03/2020 09:29

Why do we need to present LGB people to children like they were exhibits in the zoo? I’d imagine most kids have gay people in the family/their friends have some and they aren’t ‘hidden’ in society as they used to be. We see gay characters on tv (when was the Brookside kiss again?) and gay pop stars and actors. This is pretty much about the T - why is this?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 01/03/2020 09:28

At this point we should probably be relieved that the drag queen had enough sense not to try to sit on the kid's lap, because going on the evidence we have the parents probably wouldn't.

SarahTancredi · 01/03/2020 09:28

Drag queens are adult entertainment.

There are so many other ways to teach children about gender non.conformity and diversity etc

But yet again the only people deemed able to fo this are men, even when they turn up dressed like strippers called cherry on top/ poppin cherry/ flow job and will.post pictures of kids next to pics of themselves sucking dildos.

Its grooming.

There used to be a time when schools would bring in police officers or fire fighters or drs to speak to children. Can we go back to that. Imagine great it would be for a black.female cop to show up and a woman mechanic and a man who.is a.professional dancer or a nurse. And children can see themselves represented in the "line up". See that their colour or their sexuality needn't hold them.back.

Wtf does a man In drag teach kids ..if school.brought in.a female.stripper dressed like that their would be outrage

GlitchStitch · 01/03/2020 09:27

Fucking hell that video is hideous.

What qualifications did the DQ in Scotland have to educate children? He talks about violence and drug taking on his social media, his Instagram (very easy to find and with no restrictions or security) is pictures of him using dildos etc.

He then proceeded to put a picture of the children in the class, with faces visible, on there among the explicit pics, without any permission and didn't remove it for at least 3 days despite parents begging him to.

Who are all these (mainly childless) blokes who are suddenly being invited into schools to erode children's boundaries? DQs, Peter Tatchell etc. Your brain must have fallen out to think this is in any way a positive thing.

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