Gender neutral toilets - small wins

Loos, not Lois

Question for architects but is there an inherent sense of balance that means that men’s women’s and equal number of Lois and also that a third space is hard to place within a design? Thinking of so many buildings that ‘twin’ spaces/functions as it makes design nicely symmetrical

It is not up to women and girls to give up their spaces, against their own feelings, in order to cater to another quite distinctive group of people.

absolutely

Shame the words "disabled" or "accessible" don't appear anywhere in this thread

That is because the thread was specifically about gender neutral toilets/single sex toilets. Most people are aware of the issue around disability toilets, and in fact they were mentioned in the Lords this week by Tanni Grey Thompson.

What would you like to see in regard to disability provision as it relates gender neutral/single sex provision?

Shame the words "disabled" or "accessible" don't appear anywhere in this thread.

Small wins, congratulations on your success. Third spaces are eminently reasonable to anyone of good faith. However...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8058499/Gender-neutral-toilets-not-cause-controversy-France-says-senior-judge.html#comments
Still a long way to go

Yes, my local Lib Dem councillors always use 'the French example' when justifying their campaign gender neutral toilets.......I then mention the high number of women in France who have experienced sexual assault in public spaces......and then there is that great photo which shows women, in France, queuing to use a single sex loo - when the adjoining gender neutral one is virtually empty:

Small wins, congratulations on your success. Third spaces are eminently reasonable to anyone of good faith. However...
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8058499/Gender-neutral-toilets-not-cause-controversy-France-says-senior-judge.html#comments
Still a long way to go.

You might want to show them the petition for third spaces by some transwomen

I did link to Miranda Yardley's blog - on that page.

It's tough going on that forum on this issue - and I have come up against consistent hostility from a few. They are simply not interested in women's issues or how women might be impacted - it's all about the rights and feelings of their lovely trans friends. But 'third spaces' is a suggestion that most others can rally around.

I wonder why the men’s is never taken over for unisex? Why is that?

Oh, ‘urinals’ you say - but don’t they argue that women can have a penis too?

JustAThought

You might want to show them the petition for third spaces by some transwomen. MN rules preclude me linking to it but if you go to the Petitions and activism board it's easy to find, titled 'Petition for third spaces - Fionne & Miranda'

And others reading this thread who didn't know it was gathering tumbleweed there might like to sign it.

My only thought is the increased cost of putting sanitary bins in every cubicle.

If the sensible model of mostly single sex with a few mixed sex, it's only the ones in the latter group which had been mens before which need this modest upgrade.

For the last several days I've been waging a personal campaign, on another forum I post on ( an almost totally male dominated architecture/urbanism forum - but which has a 'general chat/ other issues' section).

I've realised, recently, that we need to be waging a very considered campaign which seeks not only to defend and protect single sex provisions, but which shows compassion towards trans people who also want to feel comfortable ( I know much of it is about validation - but you do have to show willing). to that end I've been plugging away on third spaces, with some success and quite a bit of support.

A few predictable posters have tried to report me and have me banned etc ( interestingly all of them young gay men) -but i've had considerable support from others. People, when given full awareness, information and knowledge of the issues - see 'third spaces' as entirely reasonable and a valid thing to campaign for.

I have top keep coming back to "Why don't you channel your energy into campaigning for third spaces, so that everyone can feel comfortable and safe?" The usual response to that is something about 'othering'.........but they all know at heart that this is a reasonable solution to everyone's needs. It is not up to women and girls to give up their spaces, against their own feelings, in order to cater to another quite distinctive group of people.

Yes WomanBornNotWorn I think women (and many men) are becoming braver in speaking out about the removal of women's rights.

Congratulations! Are we becoming braver about saying no?

I have no problem with gender neutral toilets that are complete little cubicles in their own right.
My only thought is the increased cost of putting sanitary bins in every cubicle.

They have thought about that, haven’t they?

On the one hand, yay, celebrations. On the other hand - have we been so badly ground down that we celebrate retaining our bloody basic women’s rights to privacy, safety and dignity, that should have been put beyond debate decades ago?

I’m going to continue my campaign to abolish the term “gender neutral”. Instead everyone should say and write “mixed sex”. I think the term gender neutral is designed to make it sound like a benign idea. Using mixed sex emphasises what is actually happening.

Hey that's great news!! Sanity has prevailed.

massively argued against by LBGT+ rep who wanted the F toilets to be GN
This is definitely a pattern I keep reading about. Can any pro-gender identity folks explain why this obsession to remove female facilities seems to be the norm?

This is good news, safe and appropriate space for everyone.