What do you think about the rainbow flag?

If you work in the public sector wearing lanyards and having email signatures stating ‘ally’ status and going on workplace Pride parades under your employer’s banner is all becoming increasingly expected which in itself feels like a way of forcing gender critical people ‘out’ themselves. I also want to know what genuine support for LBG and T people the rainbow-washing provides although I can see it makes a lot of money for the Prides who licence it.

I'll say it again. Rainbow = gay pride

Say it all you like. That doesn't make it true. Repetition does not equal veracity. The Rainbow flag is synonymous with an aggressive, niche lobby who want to take a battering ram to sex segregated spaces and chuck lesbians out of public places unless they meekly submit to authoritarian, self entitled bullying. This agenda is profoundly unpopular because of the antics of its zealous advocates.

Again everyone is conveniently ignoring that trans have their own flag. A few may use the rainbow (perhaps if they also identify as gay) but most would use the trans flag.

I am struggling to understand all the beef with the rainbow flag but not with the trans flag?

I'll say it again. Rainbow = gay pride

I used to love it and wave it proudly at pride marches. I'm 50 and straight but used to go on gay rights demonstrations back in the 80s with my gay and transgender friends. The flag does seem a bit sinister now though and that is because of TRA encroachment of women's rights and denial of and silencing about basic biology.

LGBT+
What does the + even mean? Is it just about fetishism?

The only rainbows I like are the ones in the sky. There's a huge flag flying outside dds school. Gives me the rage every time I see it because it tells me and my GC thinking daughter are not welcome. Like pp said, it's the tra flag now. It signifies exclusion of those who have the ability of critical analysis and who believe in science not feelz. It's a militant nazi-esque you-must-submit-to-our-way-of-thinking flag. No thanks.

Nonny great post 👏👏💪

Isabelle you said you have been specifically told you must use the toilets at the same time as your trans women colleagues otherwise you could lose your job. I've never heard such rubbish in my life.

Nice minimisation of a woman’s concerns there, very empathetic.

Yes trans women have had the legal right to use female facilities in the UK since the GRA in 2004 and this may be written into a policy document at work. You are not going to lose your job if you decide to wait 5 minutes to use the loo as a trans woman being in there makes you so uncomfortable. If this is the biggest problem you have to face at work then you are incredibly lucky.

In that case, why couldn’t a transwoman wait for 5 minutes outside the men’s toilets if the presence of a man in there makes them uncomfortable? If you think it’s such a minor issue, why are transwomen trying to make it happen?

Why don’t you think women wanting their own private space and being hated and abused for it is important too?

If this is the biggest problem you have to face at work then you are incredibly lucky.

I'll remember that next time I'm desperate for the loo but daren't go in case I'm accused of committing a hate crime.

Isabelle you said you have been specifically told you must use the toilets at the same time as your trans women colleagues otherwise you could lose your job. I've never heard such rubbish in my life.

Well, you don't have to believe it, but that doesn't make it untrue.

I'm not talking about waiting 5 minutes for the loo, I'd have thought that was pretty obvious. I'm talking about walking in, seeing a transwoman colleague there, and walking out again. It specifically says on our code of conduct that that would be viewed as bullying and will be subject to disciplinary procedures.

I find myself looking with suspicion at the parents of a child wearing a rainbow t shirt - are they woke or does the child just like pretty things?

Oh FFS. The parents may well be (shock horror) gay or else their child just likes pretty things.

Excellent post NonnyMouse1337 Thank you.

It’s corporate bullshit these days. It means nothing. Everyone gets given them to wear, it doesn’t mean the individual wearing it is nice & accepting & understanding about people who are LGBT, it means they got an email from HR ordering them to wear the new lanyard.

It’s a shame because it used to mean organisations had made an effort, had put in lots of training & support, now anyone can plonk a rainbow on the premises and win woke points

Take sport for example - rainbow laces in football but still in 21st century we have not one openly gay male high level footballer.

Isabelle you said you have been specifically told you must use the toilets at the same time as your trans women colleagues otherwise you could lose your job. I've never heard such rubbish in my life.

Yes trans women have had the legal right to use female facilities in the UK since the GRA in 2004 and this may be written into a policy document at work. You are not going to lose your job if you decide to wait 5 minutes to use the loo as a trans woman being in there makes you so uncomfortable. If this is the biggest problem you have to face at work then you are incredibly lucky.

Some of us have actual hate and discrimination to deal with.

Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there

This!! My local fire and police station have them flying. I feel like it’s letting me know I better keep my mouth shut

EverardDigby
I'm certainly not knowledgeable about the history but I'm old enough to remember the United Colours of Benetton, their campaign (apart from being a sales pitch) was about racial unity iirc, It wasn't a rainbow but very colourful and I loved their clothes.
Then we had the Rainbow nation for post Apartheid South Africa, which all seemed a symbol of hope and unity. After all God created the rainbow after the great flood and Noah's ark as a sort of symbol of regeneration and new beginnings (and a promise not to flood the world again....)

When it was appropriated by stonewall I don't know. But it's very annoying as children love rainbows, painting rainbows, buying rainbow t shirts etc and they are unwittingly being co-opted. And I find myself looking with suspicion at the parents of a child wearing a rainbow t shirt - are they woke or does the child just like pretty things?

When you say lesbians get “thrown under the bus” here what you mean is no one buys your bullshit arguments

Precisely. The tactic is to make totally false, unsubstantiated accusations of bigotry and expect grovelling apologies. It is a recurrent theme. It is also a distraction from those who are literally getting lesbians thrown out of places like the National Theatre during pride week. This lobby use spurious accusations of hate speech to silence debate. Justice Knowles made that observation citing Professor Kathleen Stock.

Lesbians are constantly being thrown under a bus on here.

Jeez you write some rubbish sometimes but this is the worst yet. I see nothing but support for lesbians on this thread. Their right to be same sex-attracted, The defence against men who claim to be lesbians, the support for women who are thrown out of places for declaring themselves lesbian and same sex-attracted, the horror at the cotton ceiling concept. When you say lesbians get “thrown under the bus” here what you mean is no one buys your bullshit arguments.

What makes me especially sad is the number of lesbian, bisexual and detransitioned women who will, in the future, potentially see the rainbow flag as a representation of their oppression. And yes, that's a projection, because we are not yet there, but for a lot of feminists the reality is that our feminist values grew stronger as we aged. So those women might feel they were invalidated, excluded, discriminated against by the very people to whom they looked for compassion and understanding.

I might be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. But I suspect I'm not.

Where's the lanyard for 'I'm not a misogynist'?

How does a rainbow lanyard make you feel safe? I'm a British Asian woman. Why does no one wear lanyards to show me they are not racist and sexist so that I can 'feel safe' when I'm interacting with them? Or does it not matter that much that the number of people affected by racism and sexism are higher than incidents of homophobia?

Great point.

isabellerosingol how exactly has the rainbow lanyard at work made you fear for your job and your livelihood? And how many times have you encountered trans women in the female toilets at your work?

I have encountered transwomen colleagues in the ladies toilets at work regularly. If I refuse to use the ladies toilets at the same time, I have been told I will be disciplined, up to possibly losing my job.

Let's put it this way, my lesbian colleagues don't wear rainbow lanyards. And they try to avoid the ladies toilets too.

How does a rainbow lanyard make you feel safe? I'm a British Asian woman. Why does no one wear lanyards to show me they are not racist and sexist so that I can 'feel safe' when I'm interacting with them? Or does it not matter that much that the number of people affected by racism and sexism are higher than incidents of homophobia?

Here's my grown-up way of handling interactions with people: I do not assume anyone is racist, sexist or homophobic by default. I have rights as anyone else in the UK to not be subjected to racism, sexism or homophobia. The law is on my side. I don't need badges and lanyards to 'help' me identify anything about anybody.
I expect respect from others irrespective of my sex, skin colour or sexuality. And I am almost always proven right. People in general are polite and respectful and accommodating of differences. I treat people as I wish to be treated - I do not want to be treated differently because of my sex, skin colour or sexual orientation, so I behave in the same way with other people.

People can tell your sex and usually your ethnicity based on skin colour and other physical features. There's more chance of discriminatory behaviour because you can't hide these characteristics.
You can't tell someone's sexuality simply by looking at them (although you might make an educated guess based on certain stereotypes or personal information).

Gays, lesbians and bisexuals struggled for the right to be accepted as a normal part of society. Lots of us don't want to be singled out as special. We don't want our sexuality advertised all the time. It's not the only aspect about our lives that's worth noticing. There's still homophobia that needs to be tackled, but no one wants to actually solve such issues. Far easier to hand out rainbow badges than directly speak to people who make rude remarks.

Lesbians are constantly being thrown under a bus on here

Can you explain who is doing the throwing? The National Theatre bar incident for example?