What do you think about the rainbow flag?

Well there’s always your deliberate and repeated misrepresentation of what’s on those leaflets. Quite instructive.

That is fundamentally having zero understanding or respect of the nature of being transgender. Fine to hold that opinion, not so cool to hijack the Pride parade and hand out flyers accusing trans women of supporting rape culture.

I think you'd be surprised at just how well I understand it.

Much of what is being argued by transactivists, and those who are trying to support the ideology, is not logically coherent.

I've honestly tried my best to work this out for myself, but the central premise, which is that gender identity should supersede sex, is fundamentally flawed. I think it does damage to the female sex.

Unlike some people, I don't have the ability to see gendered souls.

I love the female SEX.

I now avoid rainbows wherever possible. It basically warns me that I won't be welcome. I'm straight...

Rainbows can go fuck themselves.

This absolutely sums up the thread!

I don't like it, I've never liked it, and I don't really know why. I'm not opposed to it, I just find it cringeworthy.

hand out flyers accusing trans women of supporting rape culture.

Jeez Sapphos, you’re still liberal with the truth aren’t you? You yourself quoted the flyer. It said:

The LGBT community is coercing lesbians to accept penises as female organs and heterosexual intercourse as a lesbian sexual practice.

This is clearly not saying transwomen are supporting rape culture. It’s saying the whole community bears responsibility by allowing this ideology to progress unchallenged. Your nice transwoman friend who was horrified should be sending Riley Dennis a message telling Riley to desist from selling such an idea to all of Riley’s followers, not getting upset at the women who brought it to your friend’s attention.

I'm in the same position as SeredipitousDreams in that I now avoid rainbows wherever possible. It basically warns me that I won't be welcome. I'm straight and intelligent enough to know that there are only two sexes, but that people can wear whatever the heck they want as long as it's appropriate for the situation, and date or sleep with whoever they want, as long as it's appropriate, consensual and legal. The rainbow now represents nothing but oppression of my rights as a female. It tells me I count for nothing, I'm the bottom of the heap and I am not wanted.

Rainbows can go fuck themselves.

No one has ever been able to give a coherent explanation of what it is though. And you don’t attempt to in your post. You just say this is Not the right way to understand it.

There is never any explanation beyond woo and feelings. Like how seeking for an explanation of God will never uncover his truth. Belief must suffice.

Sorry I’m a non believer. Until I hear something I can understand.

How is it less odd to identify as the sex you empirically are not and never can become (medically speaking), than identifying as a parent when you do not have a child?

That is fundamentally having zero understanding or respect of the nature of being transgender. Fine to hold that opinion, not so cool to hijack the Pride parade and hand out flyers accusing trans women of supporting rape culture.

I'm a life long lesbian and I'm in a same sex relationship. My partner has never liked the flag or involved herself in any Pride events. I, on the other hand, didn't mind the flag at all but like my partner, I never got involved with any Pride events either.

Over the past two years my feelings towards the flag have slowly changed. I now hate it and feel a sense of dread every time I see it. Just today I spotted a rainbow with 'We love love' next to it in a shop window and my stomach instantly turned over. It no longer represents me, a lesbian woman, and I now consider the rainbow flag a sign of oppression.

If a person identified as a parent without having any children they cared that would be odd I agree.

Female and male are biological sexes.

How is it less odd to identify as the sex you empirically are not and never can become (medically speaking), than identifying as a parent when you do not have a child?

There are distinctions between lesbians and males-who-identify-as-lesbians. I use that clunky phrase deliberately because there is no such thing, to my mind, as a male lesbian.

But trans women with female partners are effectively in very similar relationships to lesbian relationships so it's not so odd.

This is a heterosexual couple, biologically speaking. (It's a sticking point from a personal experience that is too revealing to go into on this forum, so apologies for not expanding on it.)

So to use a more general example for discussion, I'd like to ask you how Alex Drummond, a previously heterosexual male who transitioned in middle age, is a lesbian now? What barriers did Alex have to overcome (structural, familial or internal) to accepting or expressing a sexual orientation towards women? Does Alex "draw out the inner lesbian" in women?

If a trans woman is legally a woman and has a female partner and they want to call themselves lesbians that's fine by me. No need to get all would up and start going on about rape culture.

If you don't think it's a problem, that's great! Genuinely. Glad things are going so well where you are.

I agree with other lesbians who think it is of serious concern. I've thought about the issues, argued and gone over logically what I am seeing for a long time. I'm quite solid in my opinion, as a consequence. I believe we should have a right to speak about our experiences and thoughts.

Is there a space where we may do so, without being called hateful or disbelieved or accused of hyperbole or needing security or having to prepare for attempts to shut down our meetings?

If so, where?

Incidentally, my TW friend who is in a relationship with another woman does not call herself a lesbian. She just says she likes women.

In my experience most trans people identify as pansexual or queer rather than bisexual or lesbian.

Similar in what way ?

Two women in a relationship with each other.

Yes, yes I know the consensus on here is TW are not W. However if the TW concerned considers herself to be a woman and her partner considers her to be a woman then I can't see a problem with them being two women in a relationship. It's not anyone else's business.

But trans women with female partners are effectively in very similar relationships to lesbian relationships so it's not so odd

Well gay men with male partners can either adopt or act as a father figure

As can straight men and straight women if they join another family

Everyone can can’t they?

Pretending to be the parent of a non existent child is completely different

Similar in what way ?

If a person identified as a parent without having any children they cared that would be odd I agree.

But trans women with female partners are effectively in very similar relationships to lesbian relationships so it's not so odd.

My DW is the legal parent of our DC despite having no biological connection to them. Just the same as adoptive parents really.

I don't think that's the same as what I asked:

The real comparison here would be whether everyone should be allowed to freely self-identify as a parent despite having no children, biological or that they care for.

The real comparison here would be whether everyone should be allowed to freely self-identify as a parent

Well yes, actually they can. My DW is the legal parent of our DC despite having no biological connection to them. Just the same as adoptive parents really.

If a trans woman is legally a woman and has a female partner and they want to call themselves lesbians that's fine by me. No need to get all would up and start going on about rape culture.

I don't think you can build the foundation for respectful interaction and mutual respect without being truthful.

Defining things as they ARE, not as some people might desperately wish they could be, must be the starting point.

Owners - not wonders...

Some pet wonders do... can we be anything now? Isn’t that what we tell small children? ‘You can be anything you want to be when you grow up!’

It made me think of this thread and so called dictionary definitions, and people thinking it's fine to call "truth."
Where does that begin and end?

With honesty.

The real comparison here would be whether everyone should be allowed to freely self-identify as a parent despite having no children, biological or that they care for.

Well yes - surely you can identify as a parent if you’ve got no kids? Oh I forgot, only one fantasy is indulged.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/father
Father
(1) : a male parent
(2) : a man who has begotten a child
also : a male animal who has sired an offspring

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parent
Parent:
a: one that begets or brings forth offspring
just became parents of twins
b : a person who brings up and cares for another
foster parents

The real comparison here would be whether everyone should be allowed to freely self-identify as a parent despite having no children, biological or that they care for.

As a hero woman I'd like to know is the "lbgbtq......whatever" actually a community? I cannot see what a lesbian, a homosexual man, a bisexual person, a queer person, a transexusl, a non binary person all have in common which is not common to other people of heteroseual persuasion. Yes there is violence and hatred of these people but there are laws to protect and plenty of people out with these subgroups to support them.

Wotcha why not assume we are quite smart, have already discussed definitions, their purpose and limitations and go from there.

I’m afraid Wotcha’s gotchas don’t stand up to scrutiny (ie, the definition of the word dad already includes non bio dads so your point has no foundation).