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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

R4 Today (28 Feb): Tom Holland interview equating trans debate to the Reformation

59 replies

boatyardblues · 28/02/2020 09:11

Tom Holland précis: only a small number of people so not sure why its so heated (“roiling”), society is a bit behind in its thinking, we just need to be nice to the oppressed. I think Justin was interviewing but he made the point some people feel like the trans stuff was agreed at a meeting by a group of youngsters and the rest of us didn’t get the email. (Nice one!)

Anyway, what a load of shite. If you try to unilaterally change the meaning of words and upend scientifically observable reality and then try and force it on everyone, it affects every man, woman and child in society - not just the “tiny number” of people pushing it. As for the ‘be nice’ argument - well, we should consider the needs of everyone in society to have their rights, bodily autonomy, dignity and safety respected. Angry

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WhatKatyDidNot · 28/02/2020 10:25

I am sick of hearing people describe this as a "niche issue".

This is how sexist society is. This is how invisible women are. This is how invisible child protection is. It doesn't occur to anyone to count anyone other than the XY persons in the equation. Women are half the population. Children a quarter. But it doesn't affect many XY persons, so it's a niche issue. No, it bloody well isn't.

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 28/02/2020 10:15

It was ridiculous frankly. He said something along the lines of the idea that men and women are created separately is fundamental to Christianity. Er no. It's fundamental biology that men and women are different.

Then he talked about caring for people who are persecuted. Dear Tom, Disagreeing with people on t'internet isn't persecution and middle class white males are not the most persecuted group on the planet.

catsnoozing · 28/02/2020 10:10

He was trying to draw parallels with the Reformation in Europe and how that developed.

People suddenly found that their church walls were being whitewashed, society was being reformed, in the universities etc. I think I can see the point he was making, in terms of how cultural changes happen. Personally I don't think it was a particularly good comparison.

He's got a new book out. Nuff said.

RoyalCorgi · 28/02/2020 10:03

Why on earth are they interviewing Tom Holland about this stuff? What does he know about it?

Used to think he was quite good.

Mockersisrightasusual · 28/02/2020 10:00

We are well into the witch-hunt phase, with anyone who canot say the incantation TWAW found guilty. Most women accused of witchcraft in the 17th century were 'scolds,' who spoke out in ways not approved.

SoldiersinPetticoats · 28/02/2020 09:47

Heard it and it gave me the rage this morning. It effects EVERYONE! Grrr.

TorkTorkBam · 28/02/2020 09:43

Obviously he had to compare it to the Reformation not the Enlightenment. I seem to recall the burning of books and people in one but not so much in the other.

Here we have people promoting going back to magical beliefs built on sexist roles. Running backwards into the dark ages.

At least now these odd beliefs are getting sunlight. I doubt most people want to go back to theocracy, even under a new magical belief system.

TorkTorkBam · 28/02/2020 09:36

I shouted at the radio when he said it only affects a tiny minority.

No, changing the legal definition of man and woman to be based on feelings not biology affects everyone who ever uses single sex services, i.e. EVERYBODY.

boatyardblues · 28/02/2020 09:13

It was at around 8.20 this morning just after the coronavirus discussion with Jeremy Hunt (as the current Cabinet have refused to appear on Today, FFS!).

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