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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I've just come out of a work event - LGBT terminology and pronouns... and lesbian erasure

65 replies

W0nderW0man · 25/02/2020 15:21

Earlier today I attended a panel discussion put on by my company to discuss LGBT terminology and pronouns. I know that I'd come away raging from the wokeness, but I came away raging!

There were reps from other woke organisations to talk about how they do things, and one of them brought along awareness guides to help us deal with/relate to to members of the community. There was a 'Gay Awareness Guide'. a 'Bisexual Awareness Guide' and a 'Transgender Awareness Guide'. Lesbians apparently do not deserve a guide. Confused

One organisation had a very vocal rep, who was so proud of their % of NB and trans in the workforce and suggested that every workplace should have targets for employing NB/Trans people! Do we get extra points for employing people who are trans and gay and from an ethnic minority?

The same rep also flippantly talked about their organisation's Twitter being trolled over the weekend after someone 'accidentally' posted a meme saying 'Cher hates TERFS'. It was those pesky lesbians that don't believe TWAW getting all het up apparently.

That was pretty much the first and last time that lesbians were mentioned.

We had the pleasure of a transwoman transplaining to us how important pronouns are whilst waving her hand around in an attempt to look more feminine.

I'm surprised that my eyeballs didn't fall out, they were rolling so much. The only positive moment was in the lift as we were leaving, a group of us stood in stunned silence until I asked if anyone else was bothered by the lesbian erasure and I could see the GC glint in several eyes! We may not all feel able to speak up, but it is gratifying to see that more and more people are peaking.

OP posts:
W0nderW0man · 26/02/2020 13:09

The rainbows are becoming a little too much. We have them for everything, and I see so many people from other companies with their rainbow lanyards and pins and mugs, where will it stop? One of the panelists yesterday was proud that they'd handed out 7000 rainbow lanyards within their organisation, but then joked that the people trying to promote the Mental Health lanyards were put out! Ridiculous.

With regards to the job ads, I had a quick search for an ad for the charity that Vocal Rep worked for and found this at the bottom:

Redacted is an equal opportunities organisation and applications are welcome from all sections of the community, particularly LGBT communities and/or people with disabilities who are under-represented.

Redacted is a Trans Positive employer, Stonewall Diversity Champion, a Mindful Employer, has been granted the Positive about Disabled People mark and Investors in People Platinum.

Basically, if you're straight and white, don't bother.

I have mocked up an email to the LGBT committee rep:

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I am very concerned about women’s rights and have been reading a lot about that issue and the ongoing problem of lesbian erasure, so it just jumped out at me yesterday as it’s something I’m particularly interested in.

I was disturbed that the guides provided by redacted only covered the GBT, no L. Upon reading the Gay Awareness Guide, it was confirmed that it was specifically regarding gay men so it’s not like lesbians had been contained within in that. It does seem that redacted has a guide for Lesbian Awareness but it was not included yesterday, whilst is fairly typical lesbian erasure.

I found Vocal Woke Rep from Charity to be quite offensive. TERF is a slur terfisaslur.com/ and has connotations with violence towards women and to be so glib about it was quite jarring. This poster that she referenced was not a ‘mistake’, nor was it ‘ just a funny picture’. There is no way that a woman who works so closely with LGBT people is not aware of the meaning and use of TERF.

insert picture of very outing poster that I can't share which features a photo of a sign saying 'CHER H8S TERFS'

I had a look at the Tweets she mentioned from Resisters and other women and this what I found. I don’t think that these Tweets are violent or rude, they are expecting some accountability for a charity using anti-female language.

Screenshots of tweets asking why this charity thinks it's acceptable to call women TERFS

I do not doubt that there is a real threat of violence towards trans and non-binary people, but that violence is not a one-way street and must be acknowledged. Using threatening language intended to shut women up is simply not acceptable.

This article about the silencing of lesbians blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-silencing-of-the-lesbians/ is an interesting read, as is this stats page users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/LGBT_figures.shtml showing the clear decline in the use of lesbian focused language from LGBT organisations. The LGB Alliance also raise good points regarding the protection of Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual people.

I’m sure that there was no specific intention to not represent lesbians (and bisexuals) in the panel, but that ‘not thinking’ about it is part of the problem. By leaving them out of the discussion, it is easy to forget that they exist, and any ‘dispute’ within the community can be blamed on the missing parties.

Our company is very supportive of women, which I appreciate greatly, I would hate for that to change in the quest to be ‘inclusive’, as women tend to lose rights whilst others gain.

Kind regards,
Disgruntled TERF

Is that OK do you think?

OP posts:
Lordfrontpaw · 26/02/2020 12:46

When I see job ads who really push their 'WE ARE INCLUSIVE... ' then list how inclusive they are (often forgetting sex as a characteristic but not gender ID of course), I wonder - do I want to work for a place that would intentionally try to 'affirmative action' their staff ratios?

AutumnRose1 · 26/02/2020 12:29

Bovary I'd also say it's been a barrier to my career, because how can I apply for a job where it says they are effectively favouring BME candidates? I don't want anyone thinking I got the job on anything other than merit so all those jobs, I had to reject.

I realise that some people are looking to tick boxes but won't say so - nothing I can do about that.

Biggest bugbear of mine is the commute. I found out that a very suitable job for me had been advertised only in BME magazines. It was walking distance!! Never got over that one. but that's how determined they were to tick a box, so I would have been a bad fit for them perhaps.

do ads explicitly say LGBT now? Because that's almost worse, it's encroaching on people's sex lives!!

Lordfrontpaw · 26/02/2020 12:12

'YOU Be kind' be 'inclusive,' promote 'diversity.' What do they do in return>

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 12:04

They have been for a really long time. I’m glad people are finally reacting though

AutumnRose
It's interesting, isn't it? The deliberate, manipulative use of language. 'Be kind' be 'inclusive,' promote 'diversity.' Who could possibly object? But these superficially laudable aims are accompanied by #no debate, cancel culture and spurious accusations of hate speech directed at anyone who doesn't submit to the new totalitarians. This hierarchy of oppression is replete with contradictions and double think. It is unsurprising that its advocates obsess about pronouns. They want to make Newspeak the only form of language permitted.

Frothybothie · 26/02/2020 11:11

Since the 1970s, surverys in counties where same sex relationships are legal, the precentages have been quite consistantly 4% homosexual, 4% neither wholly homosexual nor heterosexual. The remaining 92% heterosexual. Since the seemingly disproportioanl increase in Trans in teh last few years there mey be malleability to a small extent, but its an interesting fact all the same.

Do companies who pride themselves in being "representative" follow these proportions?

Equally as I have mentioned in similar census data of race, does the average person know these proportions, or woudl they think the proportions are MUCH higher in view of the increased publicity?

AutumnRose1 · 26/02/2020 11:01

Bovary “ 'Inclusive' and 'diversity' are the cudgels used to beat people into submission”

They have been for a really long time. I’m glad people are finally reacting though.

Lordfrontpaw · 26/02/2020 10:42

Our company is a bit too over represented by gay men then by their reckoning.

Maybe we ought to sack some of them and find some less qualified people to fill their very skilled roles?

BovaryX · 26/02/2020 10:39

One organisation had a very vocal rep, who was so proud of their % of NB and trans in the workforce and suggested that every workplace should have targets for employing NB/Trans people! Do we get extra points for employing people who are trans and gay and from an ethnic minority?

The recent posts about purity spirals were very interesting. 'Inclusive' and 'diversity' are the cudgels used to beat people into submission. Compelled speech is an existential threat to freedom of speech. This paradigm is not sustainable. An unraveling is on the horizon.

Lordfrontpaw · 25/02/2020 22:29

I think they meant what it has become to signify - most of my family falls into that category too.

AutumnRose1 · 25/02/2020 22:04

“ I read a tweet where someone said that as a gay person they now viewed the rainbow flag as a person of an ethnic minority looks at the St George’s cross these days.”

Oh dear.

Plenty of us ethnic minorities happy to wear that and do when football’s on. I’m an English woman, the English flag doesnt upset me. Im not Emily Thornberry.

Lordfrontpaw · 25/02/2020 21:52

I read a tweet where someone said that as a gay person they now viewed the rainbow flag as a person of an ethnic minority looks at the St George’s cross these days.

Siameasy · 25/02/2020 21:48

In my work place honestly people are fed up with rainbows. Everyone is sick of it. The word LGBT provokes eye rolling now. No other group gets mentioned.

Qcng · 25/02/2020 21:44

Ok. Took all of ten seconds, but horizontal black and white striped do indeed represent "straight pride"
Not sure why that's needed, seeing as straight is the norm.

Qcng · 25/02/2020 21:41

🏁 = genderfree.

No idea what straight flag looks like

Qcng · 25/02/2020 21:39

The black and white (checkers) flag represents "genderfree" which is actually a "trans" gender included in LGBT according to Stonewall.
But basically, yeah, countering the madness.

LonginesPrime · 25/02/2020 21:31

AutumnRose, I think the black and white flag represents straight pride.

AutumnRose1 · 25/02/2020 21:22

Yes, I now see the rainbow flag as a threat.

I could be totally wrong but is the black and white flag meant to be a counter for it?

boatyardblues · 25/02/2020 21:15

It's becoming so obvious that the LGBT movement has been totally hijacked by the T (and a few woke bros) and is becoming more and more misogynistic and anti-women.

This is the most depressing aspect of the last few years. The rainbow flag used to have positive connotations about inclusion. Nowadays it’s more often a sign of big business jumping on the bandwagon (M&S LGBT sarnie anyone?) for woke cookies or that an organisation might not have the tightest grip on safeguarding policy or balancing Equality Act provisions. When you think how hard earlier LGB campaigners worked to build all that goodwill and acceptance, its sad to see how much damage a partisan lobby can wreak in a few short years.

DCIRozHuntley · 25/02/2020 21:01

You won't have been the only one raging at this. It's becoming so obvious that the LGBT movement has been totally hijacked by the T (and a few woke bros) and is becoming more and more misogynistic and anti-women.

Quite glad I don't work outside of the home so I don't have to sit through this shit with a straight face.

Dances · 25/02/2020 19:24

'Terfitude' - brilliant!

Stealing that....

Lordfrontpaw · 25/02/2020 19:04

'Points' snort. I'd be yelling 'Bingo-ooo!' but then I have quite a big gob and am getting really like my mother (never a shit give) as I get older.]

I think the time is here to NOT remail silent (when safe - don't get punched out there). We just can't allow this to drag on - or when it does go tits up we will have lost ground as you never quite go back to where you were, do you?

LonginesPrime · 25/02/2020 18:59

He has admitted that maybe it would have been a good idea to have a lesbian (and a bisexual), rather than just 2 straight (1 of whom was oh-so-woke) women, 2 gay men and a transwoman on the panel!

While I'm no stranger to lesbians being genuinely forgotten when planning a LGBT events (largely because they're unrepresented on committees and panels and people genuinely forget they exist) if they're not a lesbian themselves), I can see why it doesn't do a woke training seminar any favours to remind people that lesbians exist.

It's one thing doing this kind of talk at LGBT events as the audience is self-selecting woke, so you know they're going to happy to hear panel members demonise women for standing up for their rights.

But they have to be careful going into corporates to do mainstream training because to the uninitiated, it sounds mad to say 'some lesbians have penises'. So what's the solution to the obvious conflict between lesbian and trans rights? Don't mention lesbians. Then no-one will be thinking about them and the important questions highlight the conflicts of rights don't arise.

Without lesbians on the scene, everyone can #bekind and there's no issue. It's also a clever way of showing up lesbians as the problem, because panel discussions go swimmingly when no-one has to acknowledge that lesbians exist. It's the lesbians and their pesky sex-based boundaries who are the problem.

AutumnRose1 · 25/02/2020 18:57

“ Do we get extra points for employing people who are trans and gay and from an ethnic minority? ”

Yes. Ithink I’m losing points though, although I’m an ethnic minority woman, the fact that I’m a TERF is going to cause issues. Unless....ethnic minorities get extra points for whatever religion they assume I am.

This industry needs to be stopped. Woke Academics and consultants will just have to find something else to do. If they didn’t feather their nests in the glut of work they’ve had the last few years ruining lives, more fool them.

Lordfrontpaw · 25/02/2020 18:52

My sisters SIL will tell anyone who will listen that she is a terf. She is very proud of the fact (and I wouldn't want to mess with her).