Cartoon in the Morning Star

The more I think about this the angrier I am.

Am also pissed off with MNHQ for gagging us on this topic. I don't want to speak about individuals but am not allowed to 'generalise'.
So am going to have to speak about individuals

Am pissed off with KH DH , JCJ. KT, RS etc etc what a bunch of selfish wankers.

Next time anyone meets with Woman's Place UK (I want nothing to do with them anymore) you tell them from me.... anyone who wants to censor the topic of newt safeguarding and tadpole protection because some crocodiles might get hurt feelings is not the person to centre in your movement.

Woman's Place UK have just pissed all over their support and recent positive media over this.

And as for the Morning Star? It really shows however reasonable and balanced you try to be, it's never enough. That an accusation of 'transphobia' will stop discussion of child rapists in women's prison. There is only one type of person who benefits from that.

November 2018
'The invention of gender dysphoria' - Sheila Jeffreys hosted by We Need To Talk

Sheila Jeffries described being worried by the growing tendency amongst women/some feminists to split into the 'good, nice, trans, old fashioned, friend of feminist' male transpeople and 'the imposters, the ones who threaten women, bad ones' :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FQtyGU766I

There are several GC transsexuals:

The people you named are all contraversial and have on more than one occasion shown that they are not allies with their actions and words.

Remember when hayden was an ally with sevenhex et all? Fox and henhouse are 2 words that jump to mind

The truly GC transgender males As common as unicorns who shit glitter on rainbows.
There are several GC transsexuals: Kristina Harrison gave evidence in court in support of Maya Forstater, the tax expert who was sacked for gender-critical tweets, Miranda Yardley (excellent blog) freely admits that he is male and is also gc and Debbie Hayton, the physics teacher has written a number of gc articles in major magazines and newspapers.

It is the lobbyists who are dangerous, for example "Stephanie" Hayden, "Helen" Belcher, and Dr Adrian Harrop (doctor who is vociferous Trans campaigner and mysogynist)

Considering the rape and death threats that transactivists make: the “punch a terf” and “kill terfs” t-shirts, the pink and blue baseball bats — none of which are cartoons but exist in three-dimensional space, I frankly don’t give a damn if any TW is offended by the crocodile image.

The fact is that there are TW who DO rape and assault girls and women.

Why are we not permitted to say that? Are we seriously obligated to genuflect with a NATALT in every instance?

The truly GC transgender males

As common as unicorns who shit glitter on rainbows.

Yes, incredibly important to remember that it doesn't matter how a girl or woman identifies, she will still be at risk in mixed sex spaces.

Hence why my feminism is trans-inclusionary: I will defend the right of anyone female-bodied to have access to female-only spaces, regardless of their gender identity and regardless of whether they think I'm some kind of hideous bigot. Transmen should be held in women's jails as they are at risk of rape and pregnancy, hence I include them in my feminism.

Feminism means fighting for the rights of all women, even those who reject you.

Yes. The NB are still believers so we can’t work with them. Third spaces are the best option for people who are rejecting their birth sex (unless we are talking prisons, where sex must be the decider).
No circumstances justify using the opposite sexes speared and services.

Detransition is going to be harder for female people too, because testosterone has a much more profound visual impact and it happens a lot more quickly. So once again the whole thing ends up hurting mostly women and girls.

I would agree but would also highlight that the vulnerable females who identify as 'non-binary' would be at risk in such mixed sex spaces.

Dunno. I saw some heartbreaking tweets about detransition, as in, going back is as impossible as transition was. The changes to the body are permanent. The only change is that they just don’t believe In gender identity anymore.

Some of them are turning out to be pretty gender conforming too, at leat in presentation. Perhaps that will turn out to be temporary for some, part of the reidentifying process?

They are apostates of genderIsm, they used to believe and now they are renouncing those beliefs, but their gender history remains the same.

I think feminists (gender atheists) and transitioned/detransitioned apostates can work together if they want because no one is trying to transgress anyone’s boundaries. No one believes anyone has the right to enter the spaces designated for the opposite sex. Not even special people.

Harrison is still a gender believer. The reaction to the crocodile makes that clear.

I'd say that would be an argument in favor of mandatory third space/unisex provision not as a replacement for but in addition to women's and men's spaces.

Growing numbers of people who identify as 'non-binary' will also have significant implications for attempts to reassert sex-based Safeguarding.

It seems likely many might embrace a 'non-binary' identity.

Which of course is the reverse of being "gender critical".

It seems likely many might embrace a 'non-binary' identity.

(Unless the male in question is your child, in which case obviously you will be concerned about their welfare, but will hopefully still understand that they don't belong in women's spaces.)

Formerly transgender, gender non conforming people?

I’m scared there are going to be lots of them though.

I suspect that there will be hundreds just in the UK, which is why I want to hold the door open for them in terms of allowing for mistakes to be made and minds to be changed.

Males of any identity otoh are not really feminism's concern other than in situations where what they demand is a threat to our safety, privacy, etc.

I’m aware that some detransitioners do not find being told they were never trans to be accurate or useful. Also, there are some people who speak out about the lie of transition without actually detransitioning because they feel stuck in their altered body or because they don’t want to put their families back through it again or because they find a halfway space to occupy where they keep their trans name but stop identifying as anything. It’s complicated but you can have a transed body without having a trans identity.

Anyway, of the people who occupy these liminal spaces, it’s only the female ones that feminism need be concerned about.
I’m scared there are going to be lots of them though.

I dont understand why I, as a woman am supposed to feel threatened by some of the most oppressed people in any society.

1. Evidence please for the "most oppressed" assertion, because all I'm seeing is people bending over backwards to give trans people privileges that rest of us lack, like rewriting history by issuing altered birth and degree certificates when the rest of us have to show our original certificates and a marriage cert or deed poll, and granting access to use facilities of the opposite sex when the rest of us may not do this. Transwomen are less likely be murdered than women and non-transitioning males.
2. Anyone with a penis, regardless of gender identity, can rape a person with a vulva, regardless of gender identity, and leave that bevulvaed person pregnant. So those of us who were born with vulvas have every right to fear those born with penises aka rape weapons. Transwomen never have to fear rape-induced pregnancy and they know this from day one, in this respect they indisputably have privilege over those of us born with vulvas; bevulvaed people can fear pregnancy even when infertile if they don't know that they're infertile.

I wonder if men have any concept as to how often women feel uncomfortable or upset around men? I am fed up of us having to be so polite the whole time.

They do if they know me IRL! Being serious though, it's always been interesting to see how much of a shock that is to some men, which men in particular it's a shock to, and the ways in which that interacts with their idea of what a feminist should be like.

The majority of women won't feel comfortable telling anyone male that they're wrong and that it's not about them anyway, at least not until relatively far along on their feminist journey, which is why the inclusion of even one or two "nice" males in feminist spaces stifles discussion and limits the consciousness raising that can be achieved. I think some people who haven't seen this in action are thinking that this mostly works via angry threats and other overt attempts to bully women into submission, but in fact it more often manifests as emotional manipulation and demands to have the male's upset feelings centered as if they were a little boy and every woman in the room was their mum. The threats and overt anger tend not to surface until/unless the more covert manipulation has failed.

Maybe a transcendinggenderer?

You're thinking of people like Carey who wrote the (excellent) Ice Balls essay and who's written other good stuff since? Not sure how she'd self describe at this point.

Ha, maybe! Not sure if I am unable to accurately describe this phenomenon due to Mumsnet rules but I do think it’s possible to realise gender/transgenderism is all a load of bollocks after you’ve transitioned. Lots of the female detransitioners are reporting that it was only reaching a point of success in their transitions (actually passing for male) that kickstarted their journey back to reidentifying as female.

I definitely don’t believe that any male belongs in a female space or service or role. There must be some post transition male people that agree with that?

Not that it matters, because this isn’t about them anyway.