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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cartoon in the Morning Star

388 replies

Cwenthryth · 22/02/2020 21:26

Kristina Harrison (prominent gender. critical transwoman, WPUK supporter) just posted this on Twitter - apparently it was published in the Morning Star.

KH wrote “This cartoon appeared in The Morning Star earlier this week @MStarOnline It is a horrific, generalised demonisation of trans people which does not belong in a civilised society, let alone a socialist newspaper. I condemn it utterly. Trans people & progressive opponents of identity politics are owed an unequivocal apology, an explanation & reassurance about what action is being taken to ensure that the line between fierce but legitimate argument and bigotry is never crossed again. Totally unacceptable. (not posting a direct link as I don’t want to facilitate any pile on against Kristina, clearly this is a sensitive personal issue for a transwoman).

Comments are supportive of KH so far. I thought it’d be a good topic for discussion here - does this ‘demonise trans people’ or does it baldly illustrate safeguarding concerns with self-ID? Is it different from the popular/accepted(?) ‘Fox identifying into the henhouse’ analogy? Hopefully we can keep things civil and respectful with no personal criticisms of Kristina.

Cartoon in the Morning Star
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ArranUpsideDown · 28/02/2020 22:13

It's uncanny but Jay Rosen has written something that is on point about this topic (indirectly):

"By pretending to speak the language of editorial values, trolls and organized adversaries have baited newsroom leaders into failing to protect their reporters." theverge.com/2020/2/28/21156681/abc-washington-post-online-trolls-reporters-policy-suspension The people running ABC News do not know they sided with culture war over journalism.

twitter.com/jayrosen_nyu/status/1233428508111712256

Cartoon in the Morning Star
TinselAngel · 28/02/2020 22:08

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Cascade220 · 28/02/2020 22:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BovaryX · 28/02/2020 22:02

That's a good thing, surely

It's a good thing that the Morning Star prostrates itself in abject, grovelling apology for a cartoon?

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 28/02/2020 21:56

and will ensure that this paper defends our communities against any homophobic, transphobic or sexist hate language or abuse

That's a good thing, surely

Cascade220 · 28/02/2020 21:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BitOfFun · 28/02/2020 21:37

I tend to agree with Sandy Manning.

Cartoon in the Morning Star
Melroses · 28/02/2020 21:33

So one apology isn’t enough, clearly

It never is.

Complete capitulation is required.

And even that is never enough - they want more.

BustedWench · 28/02/2020 21:16

What a bunch of bloody cowards. Absolute shower of shit

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2020 20:47

Can we have some positive action for female people please? As a protected class of people? Without any males included? Thanks awfully.

Cwenthryth · 28/02/2020 20:27

to promote positive action and reform of the Gender Recognition Act to ensure trans people are able to participate equally in our workplaces, our communities, and our movement.

This jumped out at me - how are trans people not already able to participate equally in workplaces, communities and the labour movement? To be clear I’m not denying this is or may be an issue - but genuinely, how are they currently discriminated against in these areas, and how does/would obtaining a GRC make these issues go away? It doesn’t seem to follow.

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 28/02/2020 20:09

Belief in gender identity is utterly incompatible with Marxist class analysis, so they've pretty much signed their own going out of business plan there.

BovaryX · 28/02/2020 20:08

We recognise that many of the issues we face are intersectional and at the same time we reject the notion of hierarchy of oppression. We do not accept that reform of the Gender Recognition Act should or would lead to an attack on women-only spaces and will ensure that we campaign against any attacks on the Equality Act.

Er, I am not fluent in the myriad contradictions of queer theory, but isnt intersectionality predicated upon a hierarchy of oppression? The fact that the Morning Star is prostrating itself in supplication and atonement? Before a lobby prone to denunciations and purges? Not a good look. But unsurprising....

FloralBunting · 28/02/2020 20:07

And if I can clarify what I meant by grimly hilarious, I actually thought the Morning Star were pretty bold, standing up to the establishment and the power of capitalism.

Now they've embraced IdPol and the utterly fantasy based privileges being demanded by trasactivism, thanks to the brave, principled stand of people like Harrison and Hayton, people who say they are all for women's rights and protections and ability to set boundaries on men, but only when approved by Harrison and Hayton, who both share a specific characteristic I can't clearly outline here, but it rhymes with 'pen'.

Pathetic, and about as revolutionary as a nice branded cup of Thatcherite cocoa. Fucking sell-outs.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 28/02/2020 19:51

It's funny that Willis hasn't realised that goading me doesn't work yet.

RE Spartacus's autocorrect issue, isn't Mx an attempt at being gender something or other, like Latinx but for titles? I thought it was meant to replace Ms. Or possibly Mr and Mrs too? Dunno but it's definitely a gender thing, so apparently your autocorrect has been Awakened.

The Morning Star capitulation pretty much just reads as "please don't eat us, crocodiles, will you eat someone else instead if we bow and scrape enough?"

TorkTorkBam · 28/02/2020 19:45

What on earth possessed them? What is going on behind the scenes?

Cascade220 · 28/02/2020 19:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Barracker · 28/02/2020 19:29

Good god, that statement.

Morning star are pro reform of the GRA? Seriously? They have a responsibility to promote reform of it? Bullshit.

I can't believe this is the same paper.

Well there you go. They've fallen completely as a result of this. Fuck em.

I have a responsibility to the female sex to oppose the unjust law of 2004 that made my sex a legal identity for men to own.
I will not play any part in perpetuating this massive, growing lie that men can 'transition' to women.

My sex should NEVER have been rendered a legal costume for men to wear, and their pieces of rubber-stamped paper they are granted by other men are being used as kindling to burn down the recognitions we OWN in law, the rights we OWN to be fairly recognised as our own sex.

That devastating law is the spark that has lit this entire inferno. No man becomes my sex. My sex is not a prize to be awarded to any man.

I will never recognise what isn't true.

Fuck all the players who had a hand in forcing the Morning Star into that repulsive position. Fuck all the crocodiles and all their allies and all their appeasers.

I'm fighting to repeal every single law, guideline or policy that has ever let men roleplay my sex and forced me to play along.

Gender Recognition? No.
No more 'recognising' of something that doesn't exist.

SEX recognition.
Female is a sex. Woman is a sex. Man, male is a sex. I'm going to carry on recognising SEX even if the law demands I pretend I don't.

My sex exists, and it's permanently and immutably the opposite to every single man, forever.
Recognise THAT.

FloralBunting · 28/02/2020 18:20

Fucking grimly hilarious to watch this kind of capitulation. Well done Harrison and Hayton. You are no allies to women. In case anyone didn't realise.

Kit19 · 28/02/2020 18:11

Pathetic cowardice

CumannNamBan · 28/02/2020 18:00

This is much worse than I originally thought

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 2020

Editorial:We failed in our duty to equality and liberation

THE Morning Star is firmly committed to equality for all. Tackling oppression and discrimination that exists in our economy and society is a priority and founding principle of our paper.

Our diverse readership are a strong representation of the diversity within our communities and we let our readers down when we published a cartoon last week that did not uphold this commitment and this principle.

We understand that trans people experience discrimination, harassment and threats to their safety and even lives on a daily basis and we are very sorry that the cartoon added to that.

We apologise to our readers and the trans community unreservedly for the hurt and anger caused by the cartoon and we are taking immediate steps to ensure that this lapse of editorial control will not happen again.

In our apology we confirmed that this cartoon was not authorised for publication, but we know that raises even bigger questions as to how it came to be published, and the management committee has commissioned an independent inquiry which will report on this and advise on action to prevent it ever happening again.

We will also be reviewing our past coverage of this issue which has sometimes failed to reflect the priorities of our trans readers.

The Morning Star will renew our policy of reaching out to the trans community and become more inclusive. By working together to tackle the discrimination we all face, this paper believes that we will create a more tolerant, fairer society for all.

The Morning Star recognises that it has a responsibility to oppose discrimination against the trans community and to tackle transphobic hate crime, as well as to promote positive action and reform of the Gender Recognition Act to ensure trans people are able to participate equally in our workplaces, our communities, and our movement.

The Morning Star also recognises that sex discrimination at work arises from deeply ingrained patriarchal and systemic oppression of women and that we will continue to campaign against gender stereotyping, gender occupational segregation, violence, harassment and pay discrimination.

The Morning Star believes in the principle of self-determination and empowerment through collective action as the route to tackling the discrimination that working-class people face.

We believe that by working together and tackling discrimination and oppression faced by our readers we improve the working conditions of all workers.

We recognise that many of the issues we face are intersectional and at the same time we reject the notion of hierarchy of oppression.

We do not accept that reform of the Gender Recognition Act should or would lead to an attack on women-only spaces and will ensure that we campaign against any attacks on the Equality Act.

We understand that trans women are often welcomed into all-women spaces in our communities, and to portray trans women as a violent threat to women is a wholly unacceptable misrepresentation.

The Morning Star supports women-only spaces in addition to gender neutral spaces and is particularly concerned that our trans readers should be protected the from harassment and violence they face from the lack of gender neutral space.

We will work to oppose division between the women’s movement and the LGBT+ movement and heal the divisions that have emerged through the framing of this debate.

Respect and tolerance are crucial, and we oppose all hate crime, bullying and harassment.

We therefore oppose any construct of a debate which seeks to divide and set one group of workers against another and will ensure that this paper defends our communities against any homophobic, transphobic or sexist hate language or abuse.

The Morning Star also believes that our readers have the right to freedom of speech and also have the right to disagree, but that does not mean a right to discriminate and cause hurt and distress to others.

Cwenthryth · 28/02/2020 17:57

So one apology isn’t enough, clearly

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/we-failed-our-duty-equality-and-liberation

A weird mix of really questionable capitulation and naïvety, is my first take.

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CumannNamBan · 28/02/2020 17:41

Apologies, hit send instead if preview. It is a mea culpa-type statement from the Morning Star

CumannNamBan · 28/02/2020 17:40

I'vemot read it all but kow towing to bullies will get us nowhere www.facebook.com/351763554897760/posts/3552168824857201/

CuriousaboutSamphire · 28/02/2020 08:26

You both mention that there’s lots of evidence re trans women being a danger to other women could you send me some info on how to access this. I’ve tried to find it online but couldn’t really find anything other than the terrible attack in prison. Thanks

Start with the link above. There are a couple called 'break it down for me' and lots, lots more posts here detailing the issues. It's been the most prolific topic for a long time. No shortage of threads with links to information from a wide variety of sources, ONS included. It may take some time as there is, unfortunately, a lot of it. From doxxing, no platforming, threats, physical attacks to kidnap and rape. Yes, all here, in the UK!

And I'd just like to take a moment to modify your sentence:

You both mention that there’s lots of evidence re trans women being a danger to other women Transwomen are men!

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