Dawn Butler on R4 just now

andy
Good grief. It's quite incredible. Thank you for posting those links. Labour has been colonised by this lobby and I don't doubt for a second that the Conservatives are in the process of a similar capitulation. This is profoundly undemocratic.

BovaryX,

"It has been imposed top down without media scrutiny or public consent. That is surely not sustainable in a democracy."

I posted earlier about the Dawn Butler/Anthony Watson scandal regarding the £14,200 jolly.
I have been reading up about Anthony Watson.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_G._Watson

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLAAD

Started off in an official capacity for Labour as Business Tzar in 2016, but had donated £33,000 to the party to help underwrite the campaigns of 33 Labour lesbian, gay, bi-sexual and transgender (LGBT) candidates in the 2015 Genral Election.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/23/anthony-watson-labour-business-adviser-corbyn-eagle_n_9298598.html

Watson is a nasty character, who in 2019 tried to have Helen Joyce (Finance Editor at the Economist) removed for her views. A full throttle misogynistic meltdown from Watson ensued.

uncommongroundmedia.com/lgbt-advisor-labour-anthony-watson-free-tickets-helen-joyce/

It was Dawn Butler who appointed Munroe Bergdorf to the Labour LGBT group, and when the subsequent crash and burn happened, it was Butler who appointed Watson.

A bit more about Watson.

www.gwiththet.com/

^Until I read them, I realise now that I had a real block accepting how incredibly authoritarian a
Lot of this movement is. I really did.Part of me has seen the bullying and implacability - but part of me has just fully grasped it. Now I just can't un-see it^

catfromJapan
That's a really lovely thing to say, thank you! I think the authoritarian zealotry of this lobby is becoming more explicit every day. Its proponents want to enforce compelled speech and they want to silence debate, but I do think there are positive signs because finally the somnabulant media is doing its job and reporting on this. I only came to this forum a few months ago, but the women on here who have been trying to fight this for years in an environment of threats and violence and denunciations and sackings? I hope that bravery and resilience is rewarded. I really hope that the tide is turning against this lobby. It is nothing like a grassroots movement like feminism. It has been imposed top down without media scrutiny or public consent. That is surely not sustainable in a democracy.

Labour closed Remploy factories

Momentum led Labour closed Remploy factories? how did they manage that while in opposition?

BovaryX I have to thank you.

I've been thinking a lot about your posts.

Until I read them, I realise now that I had a real block accepting how incredibly authoritarian a
Lot of this movement is.

I really did.

Part of me has seen the bullying and implacability - but part of me has just fully grasped it.

Now I just can't un-see it.

You know, the biggest irony is that, if their engagement with this issue were anything other than utterly superficial, opportunistic, and achingly shallow, the Leadership contenders embroiled in this would have avoided that embroilment.

You shouldn't reduce politics to a 'competitive compassioning' competition, some fake performance of wallowing in sentiment.

We have to be able to ask more of our representatives.

Such as:

• a demonstrable ability to read statements committing them to future policy commitments before they sign

And

• (ideally) a willingness to engage with research around such future policy positions*

• I know this might be over-ambitious at the moment.

My arse. Care about what exactly?

Well right now the fight for labour is opening up female spaces to a wider set of people, making everything inclusive.

Dawn Butler's manifesto.

To use the analogy. If one were doing a parenting assessment there would be some cause for concerns
dawn4deputy.org/manifesto/

Doxxing always sounded to me like something fairies did, involving some kind of toxic spray. Or spitting.

In 2018 149 women fell down dead, killed by 147 men. How many TW were murdered in the same period? Did transphobia have anything at all to do with it?

And I'm getting more and more annoyed about the total invisibility of TM, they're not even on the radar to these politicians. The sexism is blatant.

@R0wantrees "All it does is create more confusion."

Yes, it's so important not to be bogged down by sound bites here: the simple thing to remember is night time is in the day, and the darkness is the light you see by. Okay? Simple really!

The sad thing is, I don't think she's dishonest. I think she really is that thick. Her handlers give her bullshit and she swallows it down whole.

My arse. Care about what exactly?

I'm sure deep down they care though, the caring party.

Momentum-led Labour has lost 4 elections - several of which they should have walked in, given the total disarray & cocking up of the Tories.

They also closed Remploy Factories making 1000's of disabled people lose jobs and rely on benefits, which of course they changed to the tougher to get PIP, and gave ATOS the contract for assessments.

Dawn Butler MP (Shadow Women & Equalities Minister):

"We shouldn't have the debate in soundbites. Actually it's a very complex issue. The simple thing to remember is:
"Transwomen are Women"
&
"Transmen are men"

H/t We Need To Talk tweet:
mobile.twitter.com/WNTTgra/status/1231292612042264578

@Chiochan isn't that a form of doxxing? At any rate, it's appalling and they are just not electable.

I also found the thinly-veiled disowning of & contempt for Tony Blair to be breathtaking. Blair gave us a decade of Labour government - he kept the Tories at bay. His government established SureStart, they bumped up education funding and NHS funding, to try to get schools, universities & the health service back to something near the appropriate standards - and so on ...

Momentum-led Labour has lost 4 elections - several of which they should have walked in, given the total disarray & cocking up of the Tories.

Will never forget him at Conference, when still in Opposition, saying that he knew change was hard but it was necessary. He quoted a party member saying angrily, "You're an absolute disgrace - I know Tories who say they'd vote for you!"

Their idea of the perfect is the fatal enemy of the achievable good.

While they wangst away about how best to deny women's rights, austerity continues to kill the people they were, traditionally, supposed to represent. Muppets.

womansplaceuk.org/statement-on-meeting-with-dawn-butler/

@PronounssheRa
just putting this up again as I think this is truely shocking, I had always there were laws against doing something like this? I guess not.

'When WPUK met with butler, details of the meeting including names of attendees, were leaked to Pink News.'

womansplaceuk.org/statement-on-meeting-with-dawn-butler/

🧚‍♀️ shit there goes another. 🧚‍♂️

Dawn! 🧚‍♀️ 🧚‍♂️ stop please! 🧚‍♀️

🧚‍♀️🧚‍♂️🧚‍♂️🧚‍♂️🧚‍♀️🧚‍♂️🧚‍♂️🧚‍♀️🧚‍♂️ It’s a massacre! Dawn stop 🧚‍♀️ For the love of humanity stop! 🧚‍♀️🧚‍♀️🧚‍♀️🧚‍♀️🧚‍♀️Dawwwnnnnnnnnnn

So another kind of tinkerbelle effect? Every time Dawn opens her mouth another labour supporter’s hopes and dreams die?

This.

I suspect she is just going to say wilder and wilder things until she states that she is actually rather unwell and this made her say stuff. A bit like Diane Abbott and the diabetes (sorry love but diabetes doesn’t make you talk nonsense - ask Teresa May, whatever you think of her, she has it too).

My problem about saying this is, of course, that I sound like a casual racist. But my judgement of her ability by that interview was based on the way she responded in a kind of robotic way, and tended to pronounce slogans, rather than engage intellectually.

I also found the thinly-veiled disowning of & contempt for Tony Blair to be breathtaking. Blair gave us a decade of Labour government - he kept the Tories at bay. His government established SureStart, they bumped up education funding and NHS funding, to try to get schools, universities & the health service back to something near the appropriate standards - and so on ...

Momentum-led Labour has lost 4 elections - several of which they should have walked in, given the total disarray & cocking up of the Tories.

So another kind of tinkerbelle effect? Every time Dawn opens her mouth another labour supporter’s hopes and dreams die?

Every time Dawn Butler debates something in the media, another Labour voter leaves