GRC changes dropped?

Well, imo they are stupid if they carry on with it. Haven’t the SNP given this a lot of support and want to go further with their changes?

Ask yourself why they got so much traction in Scotland with politicians. Someone very senior has bought into it.

But that's the thing - they aren't stupid. Yet they are doing this. And the results are evident when you look first at the Libdems and then the Labour Party.

Nicola needs to protect her legacy within the SNP and also protect the SNP. Things are going to get tough for her from other directions very soon, and the SNP absolutely will not need any extra sticks to be beaten with and this just sets them up for an absolute panning from the media and the public.

I would imagine the SNP are stupider than that and insist on pressing ahead to show how liberal they are on these matters compared to the Conservatives as a nationalistic thing.

A lot of their policy seems to be done on that basis - of course not always with such explosive results in prospect.

You'd think the SNP would be looking at whats happening to the Labour party and thinking even just from a self preservation angle - hmm maybe this isnt such a good idea after all.

To be honest - if it comes in in Scotland I will the first to say ‘devolute away - get tae fuck and don’t come back’ (and I’m Scottish)

This is dead in the water in England and Wales. Nobody in government wants to be associated with it seems. Trans activism is causing a lot of problems even without changing the law.

Scotland - not so optimistic. But you could not have a situation where Scotland will be able to legislate so that Self ID will apply for England and Wales by the back door. They can’t. It’s not going to be legal to do that.

It does however lead to a massive oddity where you will have a huge number of trans self ID in Scotland. With all the issues that will bring.

Daily Mail:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8031787/Ministers-expected-scrap-plans-allow-officially-change-gender-simply-declaring-it.html

One of the concerns (suggested by the judge in Maya Forstater's case) is that the legislative route to be regarded as the opposite sex in order to help those with gender dyspjoria, is being recast as there being a human right to be regarded as the opposite sex.

I will need a lot of evidence to believe that this government is doing anything to protect children and women rather than simply enjoying the mess that the labour party are in

I agree with everyone who is advising caution. The Conservatives are just as prone to pandering to lobbyists as Labour. However, I do think there are reasons for cautious optimism. There is a confluence of events which highlight various negative consequences of this lobby's tactics and agenda. And they are all receiving widespread coverage in the national media. One of them is the attack on freedom of speech and the Orwellian activities of the police, as highlighted by Harry's case. This also connects with Professor Selina Todd's case and the oppressive environment in universities where # no debate dominates and is hampering academic research. The other is the activities of Tavistock and the puberty blockers travesty, as highlighted by Keira Bell's case. The third is the aggressive promotion of this ideology within schools, as highlighted by the Oxfordshire school girl case. The negative publicity surrounding these separate, yet connected events should give any politician with a functioning brain cell pause for thought. This agenda has zero public support and its myriad, serious problems will continue to become explicit. And continue to be reported.

Oh ok.... I’ll have to do some reading to get my head around all of that! Starmer referred to losing the ‘Charter of Fundamental Rights’ which I took to mean we were signing out of something major on human rights with a Brexit.

I’m having a sofa day today with a heavy cold on top of joint pain flares and fatigue....will use the time to do some reading on all of this!

And as others have said upthread, we are fully compliant with the ECHR court ruling because we now allow same-sex marriage.

Speculating here whether this will mean Labour drop transgender issues or double-down and become the Trans Party. If the latter, the Lib Dems will have to think up a new wheeze.

It's very tempting to make lists of all the people who need to be taken away for re-education. Thrilled though that presumably this will be an end to Mermaids and that schools will stop teaching children that there's no such thing as biology and there are hundreds of genders.

Look forward to reading reports of people swiftly removing their pronouns from the work profiles!

EHCR = Equalities and Human Rights Commission. It is a statutory (ie set up by Parliament) non-departmental (ie theoretically politically independent) public body.
ECHR = European Court of Human Rights. An international court that was established and stands separate from the EU.

The EU Court is the ECJ. We are out of that.

The ECHR is the court of the Council of Europe and its Convention on Human Rights. Every European nation is a member except the Stalinist dictatorship of Belarus and the illegal regimes in parts of Cyprus, Ukariane and Georgia.

Are we bound by EHRC at all now we have left the EU though

The EHRC is quite separate to the EU, as is the ECHR.

In any case, the Equalities Act 2010 is UK legislation. That's the one we need to keep our eye on - any proposed changes that would dilute the meaning of the act in relation to single sex exemptions.

I agree with PP. This is hopeful news but no time to relax. Too much time - and let's be clear, money - has been invested in advancing the TRA agenda.

Are we bound by EHRC at all now we have left the EU though - Keir Starmer seemed to imply that we weren’t, in one of his answers during hustings recently.

I get the point that it may be held as an example in any case though.

IANAL, but I agree that the correct comparator for assessing discrimination on the basis of ‘gender reassignment’ (which itself is a confusing term really), is someone of the same sex who has not ‘reassigned their gender’, not someone of the sex the claimant says they have reassigned their gender to. For one, how would that work for claims of discrimination on the basis of gender reassignments for anyone non-binary - there are no non-binary non-gender-reassigned people to compare to.

The law absolutely needs reform - to clarify sex and gender and the status and recognition of each. Not to mishmash them together and render them meaningless.

The reason The Tory's are quiet right now is because Labour is making themselves unelectable to many of their voters. The fact they are quiet means that a lot of lobbying is going on behind the scenes.

Absolutely true. The lobbying is relentless. I don't think much of Boris Johnson, but surely even he can grasp as he watches Labour's antics that this agenda has zero public support? If the Conservatives don't figure out why their newly minted voters switched parties, they don't deserve to stay in power.

Can you get a gas bill in any name though? Don't you need any proof at all?

^But let's not forget that many Cons are just as batshit as the Baileys and Butlers.
For example Penny Mordaunt, who is quoted in that article and is now back in cabinet. She is a firm believer in people's ability to change sex^

Absolutely true ThePurported This crazy agenda has advanced at top speed during the last decade under a Conservative government.....

But let's not forget that many Cons are just as batshit as the Baileys and Butlers.
For example Penny Mordaunt, who is quoted in that article and is now back in cabinet. She is a firm believer in people's ability to change sex.

I think Barracker is right, they will let Labour take all the flack while they negotiate behind the scenes something that will enable more self ID in practice. The Equality Act is clearly on the table.

This^
The reason The Tory's are quiet right now is because Labour is making themselves unelectable to many of their voters.
The fact they are quiet means that a lot of lobbying is going on behind the scenes.
These words, while hopeful are meaningless.

Because of the effect on children...

What about the effect on women?

Brilliant news.

And if Labour wants to die on the hill of trans activism? Rebecca LB, Butler et al can lead the charge into political oblivion

I think that's why the govt has dropped this little teaser, they don't want Labour to run out of steam

But let's not forget that many Cons are just as batshit as the Baileys and Butlers.
For example Penny Mordaunt, who is quoted in that article and is now back in cabinet. She is a firm believer in people's ability to change sex.

I think Barracker is right, they will let Labour take all the flack while they negotiate behind the scenes something that will enable more self ID in practice. The Equality Act is clearly on the table.

If the GRA reform is halted, the next step is to challenge Stonewall law which misinterprets the existing law to say that the Equalities Act allows for self-ID irrespective of the GRA, meaning that someone can identify into benefiting from the single sex exemption intended for the opposite sex. The critical thing to tackle in this is challenging the EHRC statutory guidance (the existence of this guidance is mandated by law and though it is not legally binding, it would be used as persuasive evidence to a court) which suggests that when considering discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment the correct comparator is someone of the sex to which that person seeks to transition, when in fact the correct comparator is someone of the same sex unless the person with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment also has a GRC.

Having written all that, I haven't looked at the guidance recently and I vaguely recall that there was movement by EHRC on this. I will go back and have a look when I get a moment, but if anyone knows the current position, perhaps they could comment. Am I also right that the new head of EHRC is previously of Stonewall (or something)?