Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Janice Turner The Times 21/2/20 Giving puberty blocker to ‘trans’ children is a leap into the unknown

108 replies

AnotherNightWatering · 21/02/2020 18:53

Looks like there'll be more in The Times this weekend!

Weekend Essay: A landmark legal review will examine claims that confused young people are being subjected to a giant medical experiment, says Janice Turner

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/giving-puberty-blocker-to-trans-children-is-a-leap-into-the-unknown-x3g37sb7f

(Sorry, I still can't get that free link to work.)

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 23/02/2020 10:22

Great stuff. Will read and digest.

SarahTancredi · 23/02/2020 10:20

It was a good article.

I noticed in the comments the usual people showed up banging on about their usual debunked statistics. They really have run out if things to say now and it doesbt work against clearly knowledgeable people who have facts to correct every comment they make.

Shame the share token ran out and we cant see the latest comments

NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 10:03

A lot of comparison to the human brain and human teenage brain development.

Published last October.

NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 10:02

I've fallen down a bit of a rabbit hole of Evan's research actually, mostly as far as I can tell so far on male sheep development and puberty blockers. And none are positive. Not appear to be reversible.

This one is fascinating: Peripubertal GnRH and testosterone co-treatment leads to increased familiarity preferences in male sheep

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453018312101

NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 09:02

Neil Evans who has conducted this research appears to be critical:

Janice Turner The Times 21/2/20 Giving puberty blocker to ‘trans’ children is a leap into the unknown
NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 08:47

Sorry, first link doesn't seem to work either.

Try again:

"EMOTIONALITY IN ADOLESCENT MALES IS DRIVEN BY HORMONAL CHANGES"

https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/archiveofnews/2012/july/headline2372600_en.html

NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 08:45

I wonder if anyone has actually sat down and pulled together all the available information and made any comparisons with current recorded outcomes?

NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 08:25

It talks a lot about the hippocampus and impact of puberty and puberty blockers on its function and structure.

NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 08:23

Sorry the third link, the second sheep study, should be to this

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306453016305595

NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2020 08:20

I think the problem is that it's almost impossible to analyse in terms of effect on cognitive skills as we wouldn't be able to measure if other stressors have affected a particular skill or area of the brain in humans, as we are all so different anyway.

What is measurable is the impact on things like the pituitary gland, and associated endocrine systems.

It is possible to draw similarities with what's been found in sheep studies to brain composition/ structure, which we know is responsible for certain skills eg spatial awareness or higher order thinking. Sheep apparently follow a very similar pattern of puberty brain development, and also show similar differences between the sexes.

What is significant is what happens to the brain during normal puberty in the teen years; there's a huge hormone driven physical restructuring and reorganisation. Young children who've suffered abuse and have actually had a level cognitive damage, can sometimes, with huge amounts of the right support, over come some aspects of the damage during the teen years as a result of the process.

There are an increasing number of books around the teen brain (audible showed me the other day!). At it's simplest, the areas of the brain responsible for higher order, less impulsive actions begin to develop further and become able to override the impulsivity of the amygdala.

This was literally the first paper that came up through google, hippocampus, teen brain. It looks at the impact of drugs and alcohol on the development of the frontal cortex:
While the frontal cortex undergoes substantial and rapid structural and functional changes during adolescence, significant developmental changes also occur in the medial temporal lobe, specifically the hippocampus, which is responsible for learning and memory

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6028523/

I accidentally came across an earlier sheep study looking at effect of blockers on the brain. it may explain why girl's outcomes are not as positive as boys who are treated for gd.

https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/archiveofnews/2012/july/headline2372600_en.html

Interestingly the results also showed that the emotional response of males, but not females, was significantly altered when puberty was blocked.”

This Is the paper I was trying to find, it was done on male sheep and key outcomes are below:

www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/testosterone

Indeed, a growing body of evidence supports numerous and diverse autocrine, paracrine and endocrine roles for GnRH/GnRHa and GnRHR outside the pituitary gland

*Highlights

Peripubertal GnRHa impaired long-term spatial reference memory.

This GnRHa-effect was not counteracted with testosterone replacement in rams.

Traverse times of spatial orientation and learning tasks were unaffected by GnRHa.

GnRHa exaggerated emotional reactivity during these spatial tasks.

Testosterone replacement decreased emotional reactivity and motivation in tasks.*

Somewhere among the above I noticed there was an impact on the size of the amygdala, not sure what; a larger amygdala is implicated in anxiety disorders.

OvaHere · 22/02/2020 22:51

It’s a brilliant article. What I can’t see in there is reference to the effects no puberty will have on brain development?

I don't think it's fully known yet. There have been concerns that development will be adversely affected (seems blooming obvious to me!) but I'm not sure studies have proven it yet in the same way as bone density. Maybe she's being cautious about conjecture.

BINtersectionalFeminism · 22/02/2020 22:46

Fantastic piece.

boatyardblues · 22/02/2020 22:42

Also Tony Blair came out with an admonishment of Labour's obsession with trans politics recently, so it fits.

Let’s hope Cherie didn’t leave her phone unlocked while she nipped to the loo.

NotAssigned · 22/02/2020 22:28

It looks genuine to me. If it's a parody then someone has been working bloody hard at it for a decade. Also Tony Blair came out with an admonishment of Labour's obsession with trans politics recently, so it fits.

OnlyTheTitOfTheLangBerg · 22/02/2020 21:26

Is that account that's shared it genuinely Cherie Blair? No blue tick and

MrsSnippyPants · 22/02/2020 20:50

The Times allows non-subscribers to read two articles a week which I think is pretty fair. Good journalism costs money.

Durgasarrow · 22/02/2020 20:32

It is such a shame that this article is so hard to access.

BovaryX · 22/02/2020 20:20

Cherie Blair has just tweeted Janice Turner's article.

Gosh. How incredibly brave of her. If nothing else is a clear sign that the paradigm has shifted? It's a retweet by Cherie Blair. Known for speaking truth to power.

RoyalCorgi · 22/02/2020 20:10

I think the fact that Cherie Blair has tweeted it demonstrates that this is now out in the open. People are starting to understand what is going on. More importantly, they are losing their fear of speaking out. It's brilliant news - even a year ago people were still scared of stating their opinion publicly. The floodgates are about to open.

Also good news re Caroline Flint, though of course now she's no longer an MP she doesn't have to exercise the same caution she did before.

missproportionate · 22/02/2020 19:04

Ah ok. She’s managed to get it all in 👌🏼

ErrolTheDragon · 22/02/2020 18:39

It says 'GIDS admits it has no idea how freezing puberty affects the fast-developing teenage brain. '

missproportionate · 22/02/2020 18:22

It’s a brilliant article. What I can’t see in there is reference to the effects no puberty will have on brain development?

MacaroonMama · 22/02/2020 18:12

Fantastic article. She is so brave. Everything is so clear, links are made, dangers made explicit. How can any reasonable person object to it? Well done, Janice WineFlowers

PhoenixBuchanan · 22/02/2020 18:02

Janice Turner is so bloody impressive. That's the clearest and most convincing article I've ever read on this topic.

MrsSnippyPants · 22/02/2020 17:50

Caroline Flint on Twitter:
"A must read. People rage at importing chlorinated chicken but importing Ferring Pharmaceuticals' puberty blockers to be used on young children is met with silence. Apparently since 2013 they have donated £1.4m to the Lib Dems. I hope Labour hasn't taken any money."

Not the first time she has spoken out:
www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/caroline-flint-girls-rights-must-not-be-forgotten-in-the-trans-debate-a3696461.html

Swipe left for the next trending thread