RUGBY review of transgender women in women's sports

R0wantrees Absolutely, it was an amateur game - playing against a team that weren’t as good - that nearly did for my step-brother. People get frustrated and do stupid things - or they get good enough to be dangerous, not good enough to be safe.

Yes I agree wholeheartedly R0wantrees,

Its not just about elite level.
Most of the reports are about males enjoying playing women's rugby at lower local levels.

Rugby can be more dangerous at amateur levels.

Maybe this will be the message that the male teams need to be more inclusive. Or is it just that transwomen want to be only at elite athlete level against women?

Pink News propaganda machine :

'Anti-trans campaign group to attend World Rugby review on transgender players'
PATRICK KELLEHER FEBRUARY 21, 2020
(extract)
World Rugby has revealed that it will host a forum in London next week which will decide future policy on trans players’ right to participate in the game.

In a statement, the organisation said it was consulting with “expert voices” as well as the global women’s game ahead of the forum.

Anti-trans campaign group Fair Play For Women has revealed on Twitter that they will be one of the “expert voices” participating in next week’s forum." (continues)

concludes:
The forum is unlikely to spell good news for trans women in rugby. In a statement, World Rugby said: “With the latest research suggesting that a reduction of testosterone does not lead to a proportionate reduction in strength and power, it is important for contact sports, such as rugby, to find an appropriate position for player welfare and risk.”

World Rugby has not revealed a full line-up of expert voices participating in the forum.

If the organisation decides to reduce the allowable testosterone level, trans women could be pushed out of the sport entirely."
www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/02/21/world-rugby-trans-women-policy-testosterone-london-forum-fair-play-for-women/

Trans women who wish to play or be part of rugby will not be 'pushed out of the sport entirely' they will simply have to be be bound by sex-based Safeguarding as is the case for all other males.

Mind, do you have a source for the England India cricket match? Have England selected a male-bodied player?

It’s the contact sport thing that gets me. I mean, rugby is dangerous enough anyway. I know a few players and they’ve had dislocations and concussions all over the place. My step-bro recently chose to stop playing after one of the opposing team deliberately brought a scrum down onto him - we thought he’d broken his neck and he ended up in an ambulance, although thankfully he was fine. And he’s 6 foot plus and built like a brick shithouse. Surely the point is to test yourself against an equivalent opponent - not put yourself into a situation where you have such an advantage that you’ll annihilate someone. Where’s the test in that? It’s like, I can run faster than my son, but I’m not going to get any massive ego boost from beating him in a race, he’s half my size! So what’s the point?

Forgot to include my own point

My partner is very much a supporter of the LQBT+ community, but even he baulked at the idea that, if I still participated in martial arts, I could be paired with a male-bodied person. That's the closest I have ever come to peak-transing him, along with when i asked if he would want his mother to be forced to receive a smear or breast exam from a natal male, on threat of expulsion from GP services (of which there are few in our neck of the woods, so you would essentially be prevented from accessing the NHS).

I used to participate in a martial arts class, though always hated sparring (and would certainly never have fought), but without exception, and regardless of size, every single man I paired with for sparring or training would seriously pull his punches. They were all acutely aware of the damage they could potentially do me, and - I think crucially - were displaying sporting behaviour. They knew the field wasn't level, and they did everything they could to keep me safe from physical harm, and themselves free from the knowledge that they had harmed a very poorly matched opponent.

Even then, some of the pulled punches and kicks from the men hurt as much as the full-force combat I received from my regular partner, a woman with over 6 inches and 4 stone on me (no other female partners available, and I was happy to accept the disparity. She still regularly checked that I was ok to continue throughout a session, especially if she perceived that any particular technique would put me at a serious disadvantage). And guess what - the men still pulled their punches with her.

Regardless of dysphoria, why would any competitor of any sport choose to be so... unsporting? It's almost like they don't want the playing field to be fair.

It’s interesting that there seems to be some pushback now in sport. On similar lines I was reading an article on Jezebel about the girls in the USA sueing over transgender competitors. The article was very much ‘too bad, suck it up, you have to beat the best if you want to be the best’ but the comments were not - which was interesting as comments have to be approved by an approved commenter to be shown on there, I believe. And of course that site is as woke as woke can be. Every other trans related article I’ve seen there has pretty much had a consensus of ‘evil nasty TERFs are evil and nasty’ - but not this one.

I missed this article last month, but caught it today in the dementia diagnosis article on the beeb.

Ex-England women's footballer blames dementia on heading www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-51139169

‘Sue Lopez, 74, was the first British woman to play semi-professionally abroad and represented England 22 times during a career spanning three decades.’

‘She said she wanted young footballers to stop heading the ball amid research suggesting women concussed more easily.’

‘She said heading the ball resulted in her suffering several concussions during her time competing at the top level between 1966 and 1985.’

This is Maggie Alphonsi and Lewis Moody. They both played 7 at international level. Now I’m sure she could tackle him, but if he tackled her full force he could seriously injure her.

When the "folded like a deck chair" first reared it's head I looked at the difference between the heaviest female player and LIGHTEST male player (because TRAs argue that Transwomen lose weight and muscle mass) on the International Scotland squads - it's just over five stone. You can't say that's insignificant, it's certainly dangerous

I had it open earlier today as Id been talking to a friend who played a bit of rugby!

Rugby players see this very quickly:

Male player in women's rugby team 'folds opposition like deckchairs'
www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49298550

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Refs refusing to referee because of female players' welfare:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-fears-over-rugbys-trans-women-drive-referees-off-pitch-877hjsfz0

You weren't going to win that one Languishing

R0wantrees is far quicker than me

Here you are scottishbride. The Times covered the story - one referee who stated that they had encountered five bearded players in women’s teams in half a season and said: “If you even ask the question, you are told you are a bigot

Share token:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/659962d0-e20f-11e9-8221-1b98fc56091e?shareToken=c00733dcb0f51bdcbc1b929a26ffde77

Septamber 2019 Times
'Too strong trans players in women’s rugby are driving referees away'
(extract)
Rugby referees are quitting the women’s amateur game because they fear rules allowing transgender women to play will lead to serious injuries.

Referees say they have been warned not to challenge bearded or heavily muscled players appearing for women’s teams.

Under the England Rugby rules, transgender women must take a blood test to show that their testosterone has been below a set level (five nanomoles per litre) for 12 months before applying to play. That is half the level set by the International Olympic Committee. But referees say they have to take it on trust rather than check whether a player has been cleared by the Rugby Football Union (RFU).

One, who did not want to be identified, said: “Being forced to prioritise hurt feelings over broken bones exposes me to personal litigation from female players who have been damaged by players who are biologically male. This is driving female players and referees out of the game.”

Another referee, who said they had encountered five bearded players in women’s teams in half a season, said: “If you even ask the question, you are told you are a bigot.” (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/injury-fears-over-rugbys-trans-women-drive-referees-off-pitch-877hjsfz0

There was a really sensible rugby referee on Twitter as well if I remember correctly. He said that he would refuse to referee a women’s game if a transwoman was playing because his job was to ensure the safety of all players on the pitch and in that situation he would feel unable to do so.
Something like that. I wish I organised things properly!

wibdib. I too would like to know if they will follow up. Surely someone will for the IAA to make an informed ruling before next Olympics.

I have read somewhere that the effects of lowered testosterone wears off in short to mid term, so surely an increase would not have long lasting effects on the muscle development. But I am guessing of course.

And of course, from other reading the testosterone boost in puberty where bone structure, lungs etc are changed to suit Adult male physique is not reversable I believe (Including the speed of muscle twitch for sprinting). Stamina is effected by lowered testosterone though. This is all from memory though. Very happy to be corrected.

The most unnerving part of all of this for me is the men and there are many of them who are prepared to ride roughshod over women for something they themselves dont believe. Bill Beaumont. Ffs.

I’d shit a brick if either of them came at me tbh.

Hmmm. A thought experiment. If you were able to choose which one of the two, who would it be?

It’s also making me wonder if a little short term dose of testosterone could be used to bolster the strength of little old ladies/etc who find themselves much weaker than they used to be - if a small dose could have long lasting effects to be clinically beneficial that would be another great reason to show long term effects of testosterone.

Going on my own middle-aged chin hairs, the trade off in improved strength vs whiskers would be firmly in favour of the improved strength.

I don’t even know why this allowed in the first place, let alone condoned by the sports’ governing bodies. Rugby injuries can be catastrophic for players, and life changing. 😞

That’s a great study @Winesalot - do you know if they’re planning on following up the same subjects over time? It would be great to see how long their advantage lasted for - if they returned to their original levels after a year or two or three - or if there are still advantages 5 or 10 years later... because that would be really helpful in showing that it’s not enough just to drop levels for a year to be safe or fair to compete - the advantage doesn’t go away so just imagine how much longer it takes for the advantage to not go away for if you’ve had years of testosterone advantage.

It’s also making me wonder if a little short term dose of testosterone could be used to bolster the strength of little old ladies/etc who find themselves much weaker than they used to be - if a small dose could have long lasting effects to be clinically beneficial that would be another great reason to show long term effects of testosterone.

The onus should be on transgender lobby groups to prove that mixed sex contact sport is perfectly fine.

With a start being to set up mixed sex games instead of take over and destroy female sport. Even if mixed sex contact sport does turn out, despite all obvious and apparent issues, to be the best idea since sliced bread, that still doesn't mean that the female half of the human race isn't entitled to female only sport and competition.

Additional spaces. Not destroyed spaces.