RUGBY review of transgender women in women's sports

Verity Smith made those statements last year & I think at the time was hoping to play in men's teams. My understanding is that (as perhaps this was not possible?) Smith now plays mixed sex wheelchair rugby.

One of the first articles I have read about the rugby review. Interesting to hear from a transman.

news.sky.com/story/transgender-women-in-rugby-do-not-pose-danger-to-other-players-says-trans-man-11943106

Coaching wise I will back any of my players to the hilt if they choose to not play with a man.

I think players need coaches, referees & clubs to take a stand like yours.

There's a RFU coach who has said she would walk her female players off the pitch if a male was in the opposing team.

I think the player is now part of a mixed sex wheelchair rugby league team?

I have no issue with this, or indeed mixed PDRL.

To be fair, if I know the RFL, they’re very good at “consulting” which becomes an airy fairy, never-ending process with no results. I suppose another reason I’m less worried.

Coaching wise I will back any of my players to the hilt if they choose to not play with a man.

Your daughter sums up the issues well.

There is, I think, a need to consider other players welfare if a transman is taking testosterone & continues in women's.

I doubt the referees & clubs would permit a female to play in male teams. They would still have a duty of care towards an individual player's welfare.

I think the player is now part of a mixed sex wheelchair rugby league team?

Sorry totally misread your post! We’re discussing the same person.

As my daughter says, if a transman chooses to play with men, the only person at risk is themselves and they can consent. If a transwoman plays, everyone else is at risk without their consent.

I have a vague memory of an issue being highlighted last year about a female rugby league player who was transitioning/transitioned whilst hoping to play in male league

I would be interested to see a link as I haven’t been aware of any. I’m aware of a trans rugby league player, however they’re a transman; they’re not taking hormones and continue to play with women.

RFL governing body said its review into its current policies and operational rules re: trans participants was to conclude in autumn 2019.

I have a vague memory of an issue being highlighted last year about a female rugby league player who was transitioning/transitioned whilst hoping to play in male league.

Its a different welfare issue but this would mean that some players could be taking a significant amount of testosterone.

Im interested why you're less concerned about the impact in women's rugby league

Much more niche sport. Less numbers. Less media coverage for attention seekers etc.

It’s all assertion on my part, but I genuinely feel less concerned that there will be men trying to play in the women’s game.

Head down and carry on - RL to a tee

MarieQueenofScots Im interested why you're less concerned about the impact in women's rugby league.

I have been involved with women’s rugby (league and union) for many years.

I’m less concerned about the trans threat in league, but very much welcome the consultation by World Rugby.

The forces allow males who identify as women to play in female rugby teams.

A couple of years ago on a thread a FWR poster described how women were injured.

DH plays Rugby (amateur, not professional). He coaches regimental teams in the Army. He, and mist of the other players he knows, thinks transwomen in female teams is dangerous and madness. His comment today was 'ir doesn't matter if I was to reduce my tetesterone to zero, I would still have my muscles and bone structure (and he is relatively small for a guy, we are the same height,170).

Thanks wims - the address is actually [email protected], rather than .com. I banged it out while I was still in bed this morning, then confused myself about where I was actually sending it

Excellent letter, fox

That's such a good letter SophocIestheFox
We need comparable letters for all the fools running swimming, athletics, cycling and all the other sports where biological differences disadvantage women.

"It is important for contact sports, such as rugby, to find an appropriate position for player welfare and risk," a World Rugby statement said.

AND WHY IS THAT? You know the answer, World Rugby. You know full well.

Thanks soldiers!

The more I think about this, the crosser I get.

My husband and I both played rugby, in a rugby loving city with many teams. In my team, somewhere between a third and half of the players were lesbian or bisexual. I don’t know exactly, because it was a complete non issue. At that same time, my husbands team were one of the few who would play against the gay rugby team that had recently started up - most of the other men’s teams refused to do so. They refused to play against the LGBT team. My husband was furious about that, and made a point of making himself available to the gay team if they needed a front row.

Misogyny and homophobia was then, and is now, fucking RIFE in men’s rugby, but it’s the women’s teams who need to be more inclusive? The women’s teams that have always been an extremely welcoming and safe place for lesbian and bisexual women? FUCK OFF with that, and sort out your own damn house!

Great email

Great news that they are reviewing. I have sent a little billet-doux to [email protected]...

Dear World Rugby

I was pleased to read yesterday that you are intending to start a review around the policies regarding the inclusion of trans identifying players in women’s rugby. As a former player myself (My former club name), this is a topic that is extremely close to my heart.

Women’s rugby must be kept safe and competitive for women, and the only way to do that is to maintain it as a single sex sport. There is no safe way to include male bodies in female sports, particularly not in a contact sport like rugby. Regardless of the gender identity or stage of transition of a natal male, there is simply no way to reverse or mitigate the changes that happen at puberty that result in males being significantly stronger, taller, faster and more muscular than females.

It’s dangerous to women to fail to acknowledge the differences between male and female bodies. There is currently no robust science supporting the idea that gender transition significantly impacts physical characteristics such that the essential differences between male and female bodies stop mattering. Lowering testosterone levels is one factor, however, there are so many more: VO2 max, height, reach, grip strength, neck strength, body fat levels, musculature, biomechanical factors such as angle of hip bones etc that do not change, no matter what medical or surgical interventions have been undertaken.

I understand that Dr Nicola Williams of Fair Play For Women will be attending the event, and I would urge you to take what she says on board.

Please prioritise women and girls and allow our sports to continue to be safe, fair and competitive. It’s really important. I am all for inclusion in sports as I want everyone to be able to get as much from the joy and liberation of sport as I have, but unfortunately being inclusive sometimes inevitably means that we have to exclude some people. In women’s sport, that line of inclusion has to continue to be drawn at the boundary of biology, because we play sports with our bodies, and not our gender identities. The progressive step forward might be to consider how male sports can be made more welcoming to LGBT men - Women’s Rugby has always been extremely inclusive to LGBT people, so perhaps it is time for men to step up?

Thanks R0wantrees and Lang for the referee links, knew I wasn’t dreaming it- and again, in The Times!
Can’t believe ECB would field a transwoman in the Women’s Team. This might peak everyone I know! Massive cricket family, my mum played for her county- she’ll have kittens.
Off to find link

I used to watch women’s cricket and rugby. I refuse to be complicit in what is going on. I am not interested in watching what is actually mixed sex sport, unless it is stated honestly that’s is what it is.

So I refuse to watch either now. Until these asinine rules are reversed, that will continue.

To me, if this published study has been peer reviewed, it should be shutting down most, if not all, argument for transwomen’s inclusion into women’s sports.

Winesalot This is the study
Effects of moderately increased testosterone concentration on physical performance in young women: a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled study

It was published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, one of the BMJ journals, so definitely peer reviewed.

I’m not a rugby player but I’m 5’10 so taller than the average woman and pretty strong - but if someone my brother’s size tackled me hard I’d be in a world of hurt.

A friend of DH's had life-changing head injuries from a rugby tackle at local recreational level. He was a decent player and very sturdy for a centre. He's had to give up working and have extensive rehab. If it had been a woman on the receiving end of that tackle I imagine it'd be even worse news.