RUGBY review of transgender women in women's sports

very interesting, and sounds quite balanced, as far as i can see.

I still can’t quite fathom why such apparent complexity is needed to establish that male bodies and female bodies don’t belong in contact sports together. It’s not as if this was some wacky new concept, as humans have perfectly well understood this for as long as humans have been playing sport - how on earth did we used to know who wasn’t allowed to run a marathon until 1972? But apparently this is where we have to start from, so be it.

Pissed off that it’s mostly a group of men making these decisions, but at least there’s some representation of women’s interests in the room

Totally agree. A (GC) workmate warned me off being too vocal yesterday. He had a point but I'm so literal about things and just can't believe we're in a place where we have to argue that biological sex is real and that some people consider that a controversial view.

That’s a great thread summary. Although I maintain I don’t think it should be necessary.

Thread reader here

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1233013089085382656.html

As was Dr Nic Williams.
I am pleased with this open process by World Rugby. I hope a sensible outcome based on facts not feelings is realised and other sporting federations follow suit.

I was delighted to see that FondOfBeetles was one of the participants.

It does look positive though don’t you think? From the detail provided there seems to be a lot of actual scientists and professionals, less activists and lobbyists. I really hope this is the start if the end of this stupidity, honestly I’ve had enough.

I looked at the pic of the panel debating women’s rugby. Mostly men

Debating if women can play in a sport without having to include men in a woman’s sport

How did we get here to men deciding on what men can play in women’s sport

🤷‍♀️

That looks to be a very thorough and ethical approach. I'll be interested to see if Nic Williams (FPFW) agrees as one of the participants.
And how very different from the approach of all? other sports organisations who have only listened to trans lobby groups and promptly handed over women's sports and sex segregated facilities to shouty born males.

The thread is quite detailed and relates to the process rather than the outcome but yes, the legal/medical consequences are key.

It finally dawned on them they were going to get sued to infinity and beyond when the serious concussions, broken bones and deaths started to stack up.

Update here:

Ross Tucker
@Scienceofsport
The #transgender athlete in sport meeting organized by
@WorldRugby
is now done. I want to share the PROCESS (*not the outcomes, at least not yet) with you, explain why it was designed that way, and what the next steps will be. Here are all the delegates, and this is a thread (1/)

www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/02/26/new-zealand-rugby-inspired-introducing-national-under-85kg-competition/

Just as World Rugby is looking at a comprehensive review re transgender New Zealand Rugby is trailblazing a national competition for players (male) weighing under 85kg (13 stone 5lbs).

The feature, which takes up the entire back page of the sports pullout in the DT is behind a paywall but it says "In conventional rugby terms 85kg is paltry."

They article says the benefits for rugby in New Zealand , where playing numbers are declining are palpable: small players are more likely to continue participating and because they are wonderfully skilful, the baseline skills across the sport will increase.

The article ponders what happens to the lighter players that cannot physically mix it with the big boys?

"Do they plough on, knowing their joints are to be rearranged by 17st breeze blocks each week? The braver ones might, of course, procuring some valiant David-over-Goliath tales for their grandchildren. But those with less gumption call it a day, their talent never realised....." The article goes on in the same vein.

World Rugby are you listening? When the world's leading rugby country understands that bigger against smaller cannot work even among males, can you seriously think trans women against women is at all feasible even in the sainted name of inclusivity?

headline writers just troll the readers nowadays

I am just glad they report it

Plus testosterone levels are only part of it!!!

www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/02/25/clarifying-rugbys-thorny-issue-transgender-players-hormone-levels/amp/

Headlines like this enrage me. It isn't and shouldn't be a "thorny issue". No men in women's sports. Ever.

fears any change to the rules could see trans people excluded from sport

Shame Verity isn’t quite so concerned about biological women being excluded from sport.

You do realise that you are talking about the opposite situation, where a transman competing in rugby league, will be completely overpowered by human males - men?

Erm yes. DO see the rest of my posts.

I’m a rugby league and union player/coach. I have a very vested interest and am fully aware of the differences between men and women and transmen and transwomen.

But Verity Smith, a transgender man who continued to play for Rotherham Ladies while transitioning, fears any change to the rules could see trans people excluded from sport.

"I don't think it's dangerous," Smith told Sky News.

news.sky.com/story/transgender-women-in-rugby-do-not-pose-danger-to-other-players-says-trans-man-11943106

well if it ain't dangerous, you play with blokes.

MarieQueenofScots

"I’m aware of a trans rugby league player, however they’re a transman; they’re not taking hormones and continue to play with women."

You do realise that you are talking about the opposite situation, where a transman competing in rugby league, will be completely overpowered by human males - men?
It is because they are a woman.
Humans cannot change sex.
Why is this not obvious?

BTW welcome back Rowan, hope you had a good rest from this madness.

If mediocre men who cannot make it into the second team decide to join the women's team, their lower skill level (hence why they are not in the men's teams) will cause serious injuries to all around them

There is a current discussion gong on in parallel about how rugby players are tending towards being "all-rounders", rather than the specialists we currently see (the nimble little wings, the bulky flankers etc).

The trend is basically moving towards the whole team being bigger and heavier and stronger. So more like a bunch of 16stone brick walls than 10 stone whippets. A woman would genuinely be risking her life to get in amongst that in a full contact game.

That is interesting, isn’t it. If Verity was not accepted to play in a male team, it would be interesting to know why.

Does anyone know if Courtney Lawes (current England rugby player) has expressed views on transwomen playing rugby with women?

From Courtney's twitter he appears to be outspokenly un-woke. It looks like he's a fan of Zuby and Ricky Gervais, and is against identity politics. He has four young children.

I saw that Winesalot. Interesting that they chose to interview a transman instead of a transwoman. Wonder why....?