wetting yourself - a feminist issue?

My personal pet issue - pelvic girdle pain.

If men were to suffer with a condition that made them feel like they'd been, to use my physio's description, repeatedly kicked in the crotch by a steel toecapped boot, to the point they ended up on crutches and trussed up with so much elasticated tubigrip that I used to fear I'd catapult myself into space if I sat down too fast... you bet there'd be more awareness and money to research it - they'd probably have a Crotchtober awareness month and everything. They'd get more than some tubigrip and a group physio session about keeping your legs together getting out of the car!

But because women... babies... feeling it's somewhat self inflicted - nada. (I still suffer now 7 years after the baby is now a stroppy pre-teen)

So the French think it’s worth investing in post partum women’s health. As I said upthread, I wish we - we as in the UK - stopped accepting incontinence as normal.

In many cases it can be improved/fixed, resulting in better mental and physical health. Incontinence also affects people’s ability to work, have a social life and has a huge impact on their lives.

And now I’m really pissed off - forgive the phrase - that my predictive text doesn’t recognise incontinence and so I’ve had to type it out each time.

I gave birth in France and got 15 sessions with a women's health physio as standard (could have had more if needed) then 15 for abdominal retraining, again, as standard and more could be had if the physio (or midwife for first 15 as midwives can offer that postnatally).

My French MIL was shocked that we considered urinary incontinence to be an inevitable consequence of birth.

My French FIL had prostate cancer and was also referred to a pelvic floor physio as a standard part of his recovery.

Interesting to know that Tena has its fingers in the NHS. I can't remember the details right now, but I read about it a good five years ago and was appalled.

Incontinence is a very lucrative business.

And one reason seeing a physio who works with pelvic floors is worth its weight in gold is because you can find out if:
a) you're not doing kegels correctly
b) that kegels aren't the saviour we've been led to believe they are
c) if you problem isn't that your pelvic floor is too loose but can't work properly because it's too tight (stressed,under too much tension)
d) can help with certain lower back pain that appears untreatable
e) better functioning pelvic floor muscles = better sex

The French have been doing it for decades, I think the Belgians and Dutch also have it as normal, but not blanket applied to every single woman, more if they need/ask for it. It definitely can be helped in a great many women and isn't.

And it is a feminist issue because it limits how mothers interact with their kids. Pelvic floor physio can halt smaller prolapses. These are women's health issues. And since when have women's health issues not been a feminist issue?

I read something the other day that they plan to introduce a more thorough physical and mental checks for new mothers in England at 6 weeks, but it’s still only one quick appointment. It is frustrating that it’s one of biggest events that your body has to go through, and after it, you are responsible for looking after a totally helpless little human being, but very little time is spent making sure you are OK.

...still have some incontinence. I don't view that in a resentful way....for me it is just a fact of life in a female body

Justhadathought While I agree with you that part of being a feminist is appreciating the amazing strength of female bodies, more can and should still be done to make sure we’re OK afterwards. I have a friend who is a physiotherapist who deals primarily with incontinence problems, predominantly suffered by women after pregnancy, and she is always talking about the lack of support we have in this country compared to places like France. She also gets quite annoyed at the assumption that it’s normal. It’s very common but isn’t normal and is treatable.

1 in 3 women will suffer incontinence. It's only 10% of men over 65.

Yes, mainly because men don't have babies, as well as some hormonal issues.

That does not tell us that if they did, somehow there would be better remedies for the resulting difficulties. It's clearly sci-fi land, but I daresay if men did push bowling balls out of their penises there would be significant long term effects of one kind or another.

@agentnully because the acceptance of female suffering is deeply engrained in our healthcare system.

My mums Post birth complications were finally resolved when my youngest brother was 27, she had many trips to the doctors and even got a kettle machine thing until eventually doc went ‘you know what we can fix this’ ... he was male.

" the recognition of female biological function and physicality is absolutely central to what makes me a feminist."

I'm genuinely pleased for you and glad you love your body and the unique femininity it holds. I'm proud of mine too. I can also be annoyed when men catcall me on the street or grab me without invite.

I'm glad to be a woman but that doesnt always mean women treated as we deserve to be, medically or otherwise.

What bothers me is the my surgery has more female GPs than male yet none seem sympathetic towards female issues.

I could reel off countless examples of men having much better treatment and faster referrals than women from just talking to family and friends who use the same surgery.

Don't get me started about the GP who was adamant that HRT can only be prescribed as pills or patches or the other GP who stated the only women who want HRT are those who want to appear more attractive to younger men and that menopause and associated symptoms like incontinence only lasts four years.

WTF happened to sisterhood?

If men pushed bowling balls out if their penises to further the species - suffered surgical cuts, or tears etc then humans wouldn't be expected to do it without pain relief and to the detriment of any sexual function and loss of continence

We're all different.....that includes women too. I've given birth three times....no pain relief; no cuts or tears........but still have some incontinence. I don't view that in a resentful way....for me it is just a fact of life in a female body. The female body is powerful and strong in its own way - and i've always appreciated that. and the recognition of female biological function and physicality is absolutely central to what makes me a feminist.

0www.incontinence.co.uk/what-percentage-of-the-population-are-affected-by-incontinence

If men pushed bowling balls out if their penises to further the species - suffered surgical cuts, or tears etc then humans wouldn't be expected to do it without pain relief and to the detriment of any sexual function and loss of continence.

1 in 3 women will suffer incontinence. It's only 10% of men over 65.

nOt aLL mEn

In France all women get a series of sessions with a physio after childbirth to sort out their pelvic floors. They are always horrified to hear how backward we are in the UK about this.

This is stupid argument.
It’s like saying if men were poor, then we’d pave the streets with gold. Oh, wait men do get poor and also get incontinence.

You’re pretending that all men’s problems are addressed by society and they live worry free lives. They don’t.

I think it's a difficult problem. For women who have had kids, it's mechanics, that is a lot of physical trauma that can happen. Solutions though, aren't simple, anything invasive can have real downsides in an area of the body with delicate tissues, where there is urine and faeces nearby, and where it can impact sex.

BTW the way we've been taught to do the exercises is wrong. We shouldn't be tying to stop a pee mid stream. We need to clench the muscles we'd use to stop the worlds smelliest fart. Those muscles are further round and deeper.

I've been doing the routine for a while and have noticed a definite improvement.

That's my friend. She's ace and does a lot for women and women's rights.

She's touring in Australia at the moment with her educational comedy.

She's very talented and educated about the subject of female continence.

This is content from her comedy. It's been cut together remember.

She's on Mumsnet too.

Maybe I’ll persevere with physio then. Hope it improves things.

I have a rectocele too, Middleagedmidwife and my female GP advised me not to have surgery unless absolutely necessary as apparently it can seriously screw up PIV sex.

I went to my GP and was diagnosed with a rectocele and a mild cystocyle. I get constant cystitis and some continence issues with coughing. I’m still waiting for physio appointment and no mention of surgical opinion.
I do feel if I was a man who had these issues I’d have been referred for surgery immediately. My GP sent me off to do pelvic floor exercises!!! I explained I do them every day and teach other women to do them. They don’t work!!!!

Also apparently lowering levels of estrogen in the menopause can weaken pelvic floors.

So if childbirth doesn't get you...

We talk about it openly at work although weirdly my first babies birth made me incontinent and I had pains going to the toilet for a long time. After my second baby I don't know what the midwife did down there but haven't had an issue.

It seems I was lucky, I developed a problem and was taken seriously. Male GP (no female at the practice at that time) prescribed tablets that didn't work well. Female GP immediately referred me to pelvic health physio who helped me a lot as well as prescribing Neditol.

I do think it should be discussed more openly instead of the constant jokes about Tena. My problems were not a result of childbirth or the standard urge incontinence and I had never heard about pelvic health physios before I had a problem. I felt totally humiliated when I started to have problems but talking about it and being taken seriously made me feel better about it.

It took 5 years for my GP to take me seriously and prescribe Neditol. My mother had an op to sort her bladder out but it didn't work, so I was loath to go down the surgical route. The tablets are a game changer. I'm just annoyed at how long I had to persevere.

Well, I had sole care of two young babies, a severe pelvic organ prolapse with urinary and faecal incontinence and it took the NHS numerous invasive chats. Come back in 3 months and speak to that consultant. Wait 5 months for this test. Failure to offer any physical support eg pessaries, medication for pain relief etc and TWO YEARS before surgery to resolve birth trauma.

My Dad had an arthritic hip, he was referred to the private health care system due to wait times and had a replacement hip in a private hospital within 4 months. Because golf.

I had sepsis, and a failed surgery. Because babies.

Damn right it's a god damn feminist issue.

I must have a great practice. I went to my GP about my urge incontinence and was off to see the continence physio within a couple of weeks.