Tony Blair warns Labour to avoid identity politics

Agreed on Hatton, he won’t be afraid to say what he thinks. I’d like to be a fly on the wall in an office containing him and Joe Anderson.

Tony Blair has far too much common sense and awareness to believe that TWAW. I think you can at least give him that

Why do you think he cares about the trans activism? Has he out right come out and disagreed with it? No he hasn’t.

And regarding common sense you’d think he would have exercised some of that when he started a war with Iraq based on lies. You tell that to the men and women who were sent over or the parents of the ones that didn’t return

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillo speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hatton

As for Derek Hatton, I live in Liverpool, and I hold the man in no esteem at all. He's a pure chancer and opportunist - but to give him his due he does speak, in certain ways, for the 'common man' - and they all know that sex is real. People ar getting themselves into some seriously contorted states in order to prop and justify up the TRA agenda, and their own 'training'.

There we have a clear illustration of what’s going on with failing Labour. Right now it’s so bad it’s almost as if the candidates are the Tory payroll. Like some sort of ludicrous political espionage.

The current Tory party and Blair think it's better to pretend that nothing is happening - don't wave trans flags, but dont step in to protect women's rights either

I take a more over-arching perspective, myself......I think that the TRA agenda is a signifier of our times - in fact, the apotheosis of Identity Politics. When caught up in history sometimes you have to ride it out - because events and ideas have a momentum of their own.

As you suggest, nobody really believes that TWAW - but those who are most associated - by political affiliation - with these sorts of movements will find it almost impossible to stand up and speak out: only those with little to lose, or who are confident their career won't be affected will speak out.

I sense that Tony Blair understands this...as most people with a political brain do......However, he is in a position to attempt to lead people away from this 'political cul-de-sac' with his words. I don't think it is utterly cynical - as some seem to - I think he knows it is a dead end, and one, which in the fullness of time, will recede in its power and urgency as the debate becomes more public and mainstream.

He's basically telling the Labour party not to sacrifice itself on the alter of woke identity politics. That's how I see it anyway.

Unfortunately that’s not true. People are listening to the voices of Long-Bailey, Nandy, and Thornberry.

The only reason that they are listening is because these women are speaking for things which benefit males.

Cwenthryth ("Iraq is the deal breaker I expect (& I was 100% Not In My Name) but aside from that, why do current Labour members dislike TB so much? ")

I think Iraq is the deal breaker, as you say. It's difficult for many people to say "aside from" with something that was so big.

As a lefty I disagreed with Blair on a good many things (PFI and tuition fees, aspects of anti-terror legislation) but Iraq is really the one thing that I can't forgive and forget.

Of course here he is absolutely right: the leadership contenders shouldn't have signed that pledge.

But as Violetparis said, it's not all about Momentum. Lisa Nandy definitely isn't a Momentum member - she ran Owen Smith's campaign against Corbyn. There are centrists, Lib Dems and SNP members who are extremely pro-TRA. And there are people like that former Corbyn aide who wrote last week in strong opposition to the LCfTR pledge and against the position taken by Nandy and RLB. And again, there's Mark Serwotka, who is very leftwing, was thrown out of the Labour Party until he rejoined under Corbyn, who is very much against this TR pledge. Serwotka's piece was published in the Morning Star, not an organ of centrism. And Laura Parker, former national coordinator of Momentum, I don't know her position on TR, but she's endorsed Starmer for the leadership, the sole candidate who has withheld his signature.

So it's a bit of a red herring to equate TR with Corbynism or anti-TR with centrism, regardless what your views on Corbynism or centrism in other respects are.

Derek Hatton from above,
"But oh no! We are talking about people with stressful lives of holding down or looking for a job, very often with pathetic low pay and/or a zero- hours contract; or who are at their wits’ end waiting for a bed for a sick loved one in a totally under-funded hospital.

Do we really honestly believe that those people have at the top of their daily priority list the issues of trans rights, social media, the monarchy, broadband or discussion about who was the greatest Labour leader?

At the same time, Dawn Butler, someone I’ve always had some time for, comes out with the comment, “a child is born without a sex”.

Is she really seriously suggesting that a child is born without a ‘biological sex? Yes, of course, I support “trans rights” and yes, more understanding is needed, but a comment like this after being trounced at the general election reminds me of Rodney speaking to Del Boy as he comes out of the maternity suite.

“What is it?” asks Rodney, and Del Boy replies, “It’s a baby”. (continues)

Now, the proposed leaders are choosing to talk about trans rights, social media etc rather than jobs, zero-hour contracts, powers of the trades unions, the NHS etc.

“For the many not the few”?

We seem more concerned about the interests of the very few, the point zero, zero, zero of one per cent who may have an issue over being male or female. Del Boy and Rodney were supposed to be characters of comedy; the leadership of the Labour party is supposed to be very serious."

Im unsure if Hatton recognises the threats to women's sex based rights & Safeguarding which women in the party have been attempting to raise for some time or thinks simply that this shouldnt be spoken about?

It would be good though if he & his comrades in Liverpool watch a woman from Resisters attempt to raise some of the Safeguarding issues to Liverpool council & consider Mayor Anderson's reaction.

19th September 2018

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364329-Motion-against-Liverpool-ReSisters-by-Liverpool-City-Council

It’s sad though that it’s only male voices are being listened to in this time but if that’s what it takes...
Unfortunately that’s not true. People are listening to the voices of Long-Bailey, Nandy, and Thornberry.
On this issue we cannot claim that women are making any better sense: just at the weekend a woman said that male rapists should be locked up with women, while another said that babies are born without sex.

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillow speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hutton!

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-backing-trans-rights-17776691

Share token for the Times

Don’t allow Labour become trans ‘pressure group’, pleads Tony Blair
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e0d5399c-53d4-11ea-a869-24971f770bf3?shareToken=a8d67bc99915a6c362664ea41aec9230

Tony Blair has far too much common sense and awareness to believe that TWAW.

I don't think it's an issue of whether anyone believes TWAW or not, I don't think many mps do.

It's just different ways to stop the conversation around the clash of women's rights and trans rights.

The current Tory party and Blair think it's better to pretend that nothing is happening - don't wave trans flags, but dont step in to protect women's rights either.

The current labour party want to wave trans flags and actively stop anyone talking about women's rights.

Either way, women and girls are losing our rights.

I'd like to see him address his part in this.

There are many things I would like to see him do. Most of them are unprintable.

Blair isn't interested in women's right though. He talks about the folly of the Labour Party focusing on a fringe movement, Trans rights, whilst the right wing say 'okay then, we'll focus on immigration' (which will always, always, rightly or wrongly, appeal to the majority of voters)

I do think his time away from the front-line gives him the benefit of perspective, though. He is saying what he is saying, and in the way he is saying it, in order to avoid even more polarisation and extremism.
I seriously cannot imagine him going for TWAW. He's a Catholic convert too.

This with bells on. He isn’t to be trusted and is a proven liar which cost lives

I don't get the hatred for Blair, myself..........even in spite of the Iraq War. I don't get hatred full stop. It seems like such a waste of time and energy.

Tony Blair has far too much common sense and awareness to believe that TWAW. I think you can at least give him that. A lot of what has happened to the Labour party ( Momentum etc) can probably be attributed to the heat, venom and polarisation that was fostered during the Iraq war........

Up until John Smith/ Tony Blair, Labour were unelectable and the laughing stock due to be mired with Militant. Smith and then Blair removed tha trots and stalinists. SO won many victories.

Until Momentum and thier core followers are removed totally we can sit down with popcorn and watch the Tories win, win win.

Fact is that a lot more voters would have put their cross in the box for that "lying, Bush-arse-kissing warmonger" than were willing to for Corbyn. And I know Momentum consider it a badge of honour to lose rather than do anything 'Blairite' but that's what's put us into this mess of a Johnson government with a mandate to do what they want.

@SummerPavillion I love him too, the closest to him in terms of mass appeal and contender for the leadership I believe is Keir Starme.

I would also love Dan Jarvis to put himself forward more, great leadership potential.

Thing is I think there are probably plenty of GC labour MPs. A bunch of largely well-educated, supposedly socialist professionals cannot possibly, one and all, have swallowed that shite and have no awareness of the feminist GC arguments. It's just that any voices of reason within parliamentary labour ranks will be keeping quiet for now.

And again yes Blair is absolutely not some kind of angelic deliverer. But just to not suck up to the trans dogma is, at this point, an important move.

It just shows how far Labour have sunk that a lying, Bush-arse-kissing warmonger is now their lone voice of reason

I think Blair is saying that focusing on trans rights is a vote loser, not that women have a right be a separate class to men.

Yes that is true. But I bet he doesn't think TWAW and Keir Starmer doesn't either. What I see at the moment - just these last few weeks - is a number of politicians and media types treading very delicately towards the truth, being willing to open up the debate, to test the thin ice and see how far they can go. The more that happens, as with the Moral Maze debate for example, the more people will get to understand what's actually happening with things like women's prisons and women's sports, and the ramifications of this enormous policy error.

If Blair wants to play the elder stateman then a bit of contrition for dismantling cabinet government, or indeed anything, would not go amiss.

Blair isn't interested in women's right though. He talks about the folly of the Labour Party focusing on a fringe movement, Trans rights, whilst the right wing say 'okay then, we'll focus on immigration' (which will always, always, rightly or wrongly, appeal to the majority of voters)

Thanks R0wan, that’s an excellent article by Mark Serwotka.