Tony Blair warns Labour to avoid identity politics

The Iraq war and the Response and opposition to it have changed the world and not for good,I think. It will be a long time before the USA, theUK or any of the west - get involved in dealing with despots dictators and psychopaths - Some will cheer - but every time I see the suffering in Syria - I imagine the people clinging on for life - pray for a Bush or Blair to launch an air and land offensive to support them - More people have died in Syria than died in Iraq and its aftermath - Sitting on your hands and doing fuck all - is now the Moral high ground

I see you Cherie Blaire come and join us on MN

Marchdaffs so true. I hadn’t put Iraq and brexit together like that before.

The Iraq war is so, so far from the average voters conscience that it’s not even funny. Your average voter does not give two shiny shits about the Iraq war.

I'd imagine the majority don't consciously care, but the impact of it is still very widely felt. The decision to go to war essentially on false pretences and bullshit the population into (somewhat) accepting it had a huge impact on the level of trust we're willing to place in politicians. That in turn was of course relevant to Brexit, given that the majority of the political class correctly identified it as a fucking terrible idea: their communal standing has been damaged and that's part of the reason how leading Brexiters who by any definition are the Establishment were able to present leaving the EU as some kind of challenge to the elite. There's also the knock on effect of destabilising Iraq on the rest of the Arab world and the creation of the refugee crisis because of this, which again lots of voters are concerned about.

So while most voters aren't directly giving many fucks about Iraq, I don't think the issue as a whole is as far removed as you're arguing here. It's just not being framed and identified it that way.

Cherie Blair has tweeted Janice Turner's Times story about puberty blockers.

Hmm, I don't think I agree with that. For one thing many people who vote for right parties at the moment do so not because of lower taxes - there are those who do it for that reason, but by no means all - but others do for some reason around values.

that forgets though is that many left parties have done very well over the years because people did feel that the party was looking out for them. They may not have been promoting far left state marxism, but they were immersed in actual left wing interests - social infrastructure like housing and education, unions and workers rights.

These parties have begun to fail as they became, they said, more centrist, by which they meant, concerned with global corporatism, making sure capital and labour were easily movable across borders for the benefit of capitalists, making bankers happy, etc. Basically, everything Blair pushed. Initially it created a surge as it captured the bourgeoisie vote along with their traditional workers base, but now their credibility with the base has simply run out.

Yes the war and the relationship with us was got wrong but I really like Blair. He did a lot of good that’s overlooked as fashionable to despise him.

Read an article saying it’s easier for the right to win because they support the status quo and basically support selfish behaviour lower taxes etc. In order for the left to overturn that and win the candidate needs to be really special and have strong appeal. Which Blair did and Obama.

I miss him. I dont agree with war in iraq or huge amounts of tuition fees but he did a lot of good for a great many people, and yes got labour elected for 3 terms. He just seemed to get how things are played out in the media and how the electorate respond.

I wouldn't trust him but I do agree with what he said and the Labour party should listen to him because they are haemorrhaging votes and support with their current stance.

*I think it's important to remember how it is that the party has become so out of touch with what its members actually believe, with what people believe. I think the answer is that it stopped being a member driven organisation, with representatives chosen in local constituencies, and instead became an organisation where the people at the top imposed their vision on everyone below.

And Tony Blair has a lot to answer for there.*

Yes yes this. I agree with him on this but definitely believe that his policies were what started to move the Labour Party away from its core voters.

Found the speech online to watch here

institute.global/tony-blair/120-years-labour-party

I think Justhadathought has it right -Blair can see identity politics generally as a political dead end, and really an ideological dead end. Whatever else he is, I don't think he's stupid. I have little time for him politically, I think he espoused not really a centrist position but one which ultimately favoured global corporatism. But there is a sense in which the gender question is just the most urgent example of the results of this - the whole thing is a problem be it about race, religion, sex, whatever. And if it is allowed to stand and become endemic in politics the results are going to be bad for more than just one party, and I think Blair has enough of a mind to see that.

However, however - I think it's important to remember how it is that the party has become so out of touch with what it's members actually believe, with what people believe. I think the answer is that it stopped being a member driven organisation, with representatives chosen in local constituencies, and instead became an organisation where the people at the top imposed their vision on everyone below.

And Tony Blair has a lot to answer for there.

Labour lost the election because they have lost the British working class vote. They rubbished the concerns and experiences of many people at the lower end, I live on a large council estate, I work, many don't or have several part time jobs. There are many experiences and opinions based on as such that Labour never wanted to listen to over the last 20 years and now theyre paying the price. The real world is a different world to Labours ideology and I think perhaps the real world is a different world to many of the mum's on here, but the real world is the real world for a sizeable percentage of British families and until Labour admit and even completely re-evaluate what they actually stand for, they will never win again. A coalition with Liberal Dems would be even more disastrous! Blair was a good salesman and saw that the left is too toxic and destructive to be any base for a party to campaign off so he placed himself to the centre of the spectrum. Labour, at minimum, must return to the centre.

stumbledin

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillow speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hutton

Eh? What is "confusing/depressing" about the fact 2 mainstream, very successful former politicians have spoken up? Are they not lefty enough for you?

Hatton is awful but what on earth is your objection to Blair and Portillo?

I'm in the PCS and don't really like Serwotka - he is adored at our local branch. However, our local branch is full-on TWAW so I will watch with interest how they deal with The Great Leader saying more GC leaning stuff.

The labour party didn't need any help from the Tories on this they did it all on their own. Or rather they put up no resistance when the juggernaut headed towards them having successfully flattened the Lib dems and the greens. Meanwhile the same juggernaut is ploughing through Elizabeth Warren's campaign. They are just not very bright politically.

stumbledin that 'Tory plot' conspiracy idea is interesting, but Dawn's got it the wrong way round. I've been thinking to myself that the Tories were the ones aiming to bring in self-ID, but have since gone almost silent on the matter. As such, Labour have been haranguing them as to when it's going to be brought in, loudly chanting TWAW, leaving an alienated electorate to turn to the Tories in their droves. Or at least, I'm not suggesting it's only the self-ID issue that's done that, but it's not exactly helping to win back their heartlands, is it? The Tories couldn't have cooked up a better way to turn the working class public away from Labour if they'd tried.

And regarding common sense you’d think he would have exercised some of that when he started a war with Iraq based on lies. You tell that to the men and women who were sent over or the parents of the ones that didn’t return

Well said. The invasion of Iraq triggered the largest refugee exodus since World War Two. In a country with a population of 27 million in 2003 that's some achievement. If he spent the century chanting Mea Culpa, it wouldn't be long enough.

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillo speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hatton

And according to a post on WPUK thread you can add George Galloway to the list.

Makes you want to weep.

And at the Labour LBGTQ event Dawn Butler tried to give this rousning speech about how all these terfs and trans rights deniers are just a Tory plot to divide the Labour party!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3828475-Lgbt-Labour-husting-live-stream

Its like they've all had a brain transplant or something. The fact that dont even bother to come up with some sort of token "We totally respect women's rights, but we need to work out a way to ensure trans rights". They've gone full on ultra as if from nowhere.

Don't worry @RedWineForMePlease I had a sex dream about Dominic Cummings

I've always had a bit of a thing for Tony Blair (I know, I know!)

I've met him a couple of times at charity events and in person he comes across as actually statesmanlike, until Long Failure. Keir is the vague compromise but he seems to have fallen for the TWAW trope as well.

I'm not expecting to see another Labour government in my lifetime (and I've got many a good year in me yet)

The Iraq war is so, so far from the average voters conscience that it’s not even funny. Your average voter does not give two shiny shits about the Iraq war. It’s another example of the Labour party’s internal delusions, along with the current disappearing up it’s own arse over trans rights. Like Derek Hutton said, it’s completely missing the important issues of the day.

However, if Derek Hatton, Tony Blair and Michael Portillo are all saying the same thing you can't really claim it's a left/right issue

Yes, you're right. It is not a clear cut issue at all. Each of the above is coming from a different perspective and base. the one thing they have in common is that they can tell a man from a woman and they know that however one feels -sex is real.

Why do you think he cares about the trans activism? Has he out right come out and disagreed with it? No he hasn’t

Like I say above - I think he's looking at it from an over-arching political perspective. Sometimes you have to take a longer, more strategic view. And that is certainly the case with TRA activism.

However, if Derek Hatton, Tony Blair and Michael Portillo are all saying the same thing you can't really claim it's a left/right issue.