Education or explusion - Labour MP for Nottingham East goes hard!

Councilworker

That's a good find, your web foo is obviously top notch! The whole thing is just dishonest which considering her 'brand' among other things is being a honest activist is what made me keep an eye on her.

The tweets back to her are hilarious, but being one of those ideologically pure types means she will just avoid any self reflection, i know people here think she is young/naive and being used but i think she is very much a willing participant and instigator.

LonginesPrime I think that's because they are so in their bubble that they didn't even see all this as an issue. Probably didn't even cross their minds that there would be any impact on women. Because they didn't bother to even think about it

It's "Democratic" as in the German Democratic Republic. People's Democray: Govt of the People for the People by the Party on behalf of the People.

Interesting to see the early (& unsurprising) cracks in solidarity amongst the Labour trans campaign group founding members.

I really wonder what is in the minds of some when they use the word "democratic". I think it must be rather different than the usual meaning.

Jane Fae has said on a previous Moral Maze that puberty blockers are "no different from giving girls the contraceptive pill" - and was believed.

Labour needs to stop preaching to the electorate and start listening to them

Quite.

What I don't get is that labour refused to take a definitive stance on Brexit (presumably to avoid losing voters on such a polarised issue) but they're quite happy to come down on one side of a key and highly polarised civil rights debate.

R4 The Moral Maze tonight features the chair of the Labour trans campaign group who created the 'pledge', Torr Robinson.

"Two of the final three Labour leadership candidates have signed pledges to defend trans rights, expel party members who express "transphobic" views and fight against Woman’s Place UK, LGB Alliance and “other trans-exclusionist hate groups”. Both those groups cited insist they are merely campaigning for the rights of women as they exist under UK Equality law, as well as those of gay, lesbian and bisexual people. This bitter quarrel could be seen as symptomatic of a wider culture war which calls into question the very notions of gender, sex, sexuality, social justice and inclusivity. For many trans activists, a failure to recognise trans women as women or trans men as men is itself hateful, because they believe it denies the most fundamental fact of their identity. Their critics, however, accuse them of denying a biological reality that sex is determined at birth. It is, they say, unreasonable to refuse even to discuss the subject. For those prepared to debate, there’s a lot to think about. What constitutes “transphobia”? What are the moral implications of gender self-identification? What rights and protections should be afforded to ‘biological’ females in women's changing rooms, refuges and prisons? What does gender self-identification mean for women’s sport? More fundamentally, where does ‘masculinity’ end and ‘femininity’ begin?

How should we respond to the increasing numbers of children and teenagers, particularly girls, being diagnosed with gender dysphoria? And what ethical considerations should apply in deciding whether and how to treat them? With Jane Fae, Graham Linehan, Torr Robinson and Kiri Tunks.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fgsp?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3826996-Moral-Maze-Radio-4-8pm-19-Feb-Transgender-Rights

Getting a nearworm:

Instead, they may be ignorant, or see their advocacy of women’s rights as being in conflict with trans rights.

Well come the fuck on and tell us how women's rights are not in conflict with trans rights then. We are waiting for our education!

I have been reading about this issue for a good couple of years now. On here, on Twitter, in the media. I keep reading that women's rights are not under threat, that self id won't harm women's rights, that women who have concerns are bigots.

What I have never seen is any sort of explanation of how this is the case.

Labour are now saying its just a matter of 'education'. So why not get educating? What are they waiting for?!

Interesting to see the early (& unsurprising) cracks in solidarity amongt the Labour trans campaign group founding members.

I, for one, am looking forward to this "education". I'm hoping they go cross-party and borrow Layla Moran from the Lib Dems to teach a class on seeing auras; that sounded very cool when she mentioned it in the HoC!

I can only assume she's jumping in to take the heat off Dawn Butler.

No she's indicated that shes fully supportive of the Labour campaign for trans rights group & has said proudly she was the first MP to sign the pledge.

I hope she (& all the MPs & counsillors who've signed the pledge) read the article by the chair of this campaign group which explains their 'roadmap to liberation'
tribunemag.co.uk/2020/02/the-labour-campaign-for-trans-rights

Christ on a crumpet, that language!

Unrepentant

If people don't respond to education they will be expelled?

WHAAAAAAT?!

She’s expelling the misogynists too. Mmm, that’s going to be interesting. Morton’s fork for our times:
‘Do you think male feelings should take precedence over female? Yes? Misogynist - out! No? Transphobic - out!’

There's an entertaining Twitter thread from Janice Turner and various luminaries. My favourite line: Is a Labour Party MP suggesting she will exile all of us to a single-sex space?! (Raquel Rosario Sánchez)

Hope the link works.
twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1229823979260710912

twitter.com/DebbieHayton/status/1229903086329749504?s=20

Great reply from Debbie Hayton.

At least Labour do practice what they preach, in that they ignore dissenting transsexuals in the same way they ignore women who don't do as they are told.

Maybe she can deal with all the misogynists first, I wonder what criteria she would use to identify them?

But the problem of transphobia is widespread. If Labour were to attempt to purge the party of transphobic views bureaucratically, it is likely to end up expelling swathes of people whose transphobic views are not well-thought-out. Instead, they may be ignorant, or see their advocacy of women’s rights as being in conflict with trans rights.

Widespread and increasing daily as more and more people become aware of what’s happening. Ignorant? The delusional world some people exist in remains astonishing.

Dear Nadia Whittome,

Do not dare to think you can educate me, I am a feminist twice your age, and with twice your lived experience. Come back to me when you're my age. I thought we had it all when I was your age too - but I was never arrogant enough to think I could tell older feminists/second wave feminists what's what. Older feminists fought for the rights you're frittering away in the name of wokeism.

Yours,
Zebra.

Oh wow. She is doubling down big time.

I actually feel quite bad for her. She's a young and new MP with limited real world experience. Therefore, she's an easy target for certain people from certain movements. Methinks she will live to regret these comments.

There is a good reason many societies turn governance over to elders. However, there tends to be a sort of innate conservatism in that which doesn't sit well with the concept of constant progress (towards what, one wonders?)

Dresden, that's sent me on a bit of a deep divr for more background on Nadia.
She talks about being working class etc but her mother qualified as a solicitor in 1996 which is around the time Nadia was born. Nadia did parliamentary internship in 2016 while also doing an Access Course after her A levels then into Uni in 2017 where she was still Gen Sec of the BME until June 2019. She seems to have quit around the time she geared up to be a PPC.

It is as you say, a very carefully crafted narrative. I don't doubt she is a young woman with excellent intentions and I fear that her youth and eagerness to do good and ensure minorities are represented in public life will mean she will be absolute manna to TRAs seeking to use her for their own ends.

Incidentally I think nobody should be an MP unless they've had to sort out paying their own council tax and bills. That would exclude the very young and the very privileged but might make the electorate feel more in touch with their representatives

No wonder the Tories were re-elected when this is the opposition. I be one more and more politically homeless with each passing day.

Education? Perhaps they should start with biology. Or educate themselves as to their own role as an MP.

I'm not sure if politicians should be banned from twitter or if it's better to have their inner thoughts publicised so willingly so that we know exactly what they think and feel.

Some wee twirp in the SNP has a post in the youth wing and got his arse handed to him when he said that he planned to educate the older members. He's 19 ffs and in first or second year of university.

This is exactly how i said she would turn out when Leftie people i knew were falling over themselves to say how fantastic it was too have such a fresh voice.

Some facts:

She portrays herself as working class ( in a very worked up narrative with only a glancing relationship with the truth) despite having lived in the catchment area and educated in one of the poshest areas in Nottingham and one of the top 100 non-selective state-funded schools in England, her plummy accent is a million miles away from Notts.

She was parachuted in by Party seniors ( just like her predecessor Chris Leslie) an apparently very popular middle aged working class white woman expected to win the local party votes was blocked from even being in the candidate group which ended up being BAME only women from around the Country. The ill feeling was so bad local papers reported the Police being called.

She was picked as a future 'chosen one' by the seniors when very young and literally shopped around Council and Regional hustings until it stuck. That's why she didn't finish her Degree it seems, unlikely because she was too poor as claimed.

I have nothing negative to say about much of her activisim concerning bedroom tax, but the above and now this. I hope they eat her up and spit her out in Parliament.