Dawn Butler and biology

But the idea of self ID is most definitely libertarian and popular among what I would call Silicon Valley libertarian types and transhumanists

ThePurported
I don't know about Silicon valley libertarians. Because most of the dudes dominating Silicon Valley seem to be fully signed up to politically motivated manipulation of social media platforms. Twitter being a case in point. There is nothing remotely libertarian about no platforming people and banning GC feminists from Twitter. The reason the Labour party has adopted these loopy policies is because identity politics is the new hierarchy of oppression embraced by the left. It is an ideology predicated upon victimhood, wealth redistribution, demonisation of anyone who dissents and an increasingly incoherent and authoritarian script which must be adopted and regurgitated without deviation or question. There is nothing remotely libertarian about any of it.

Interesting piece on Unherd regarding the Labour party lunacy on trans issues:

unherd.com/2020/02/the-labour-party-has-chosen-to-identify-as-unelectable/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3

it's actually full of libertarians.

Respectfully cat I don't think that is true at all. Libertarians believe in freedom of speech. Libertarians believe in a small state, low taxes.

Bovary But the idea of self ID is most definitely libertarian and popular among what I would call Silicon Valley libertarian types and transhumanists.

On the other hand, if you look at the root causes of gender dysphoria, they include homophobia and rigid gender norms - these are conservative 'values', if you like.

If you only focus on the attack on free speech in the UK then sure, that side is nothing but authoritarian. I think that has been a perfect storm of wokeism, millennial rage and angry porn-addled men dominating social media combined with the capture of various institutions with the help of Stonewall 2.0.
God only knows why Labour has decided that any of this aligns with its values.

Butler's use of impenetrable, arcane language...

She's a bluffer. A low-energy bulb with limited education who bigs herself up by imitating the sound of educated people around her like a parrot. Livingstone and Corbyn do much the same.

It’s only a matter of time before they start wailing ‘stop picking on meeeeee’ it’s only because I’m a woman/ethnic minority/have flat feet/am an Aquarius/I’m so beautiful/ have a wart/it’s part of a global conspiracy to get me etc.

There will never be ‘hands up - I was advised to say this against my better judgement/I was fooled/they bullied me/they kidnapped my tortoise...’

Sorry, wrong thread!

One term I have learned from all these twitter discussions is the term dog whistle. It seems like just another negative phrase to stop debate. Not that I have seen much reasoned debate. Or even sense from those with alternative viewpoints. I saw quite a few violent memes come out with Dawn’s rebuttal ...

Thanks Sonia for capturing our concerns.

Interesting that the drag queen who was performing in Rochdale (the one the father was concerned about because the drag queen was pictured naked several times and in BDSM gear etc) has been promoted by the BBC, which conveniently ommitted those bits. Once again, parents aren't being given the full facts. Once again, the BBC is complicit in this deception and the broadcaster is complicit in grooming parents and children. It's putting wokeness ahead of safeguarding.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-47720808/drag-queen-story-time-connecting-kids-with-lgbtq-role-models-of-colour

They're far more likely to be making arses of themselves waving their silly little flags in "solidarity". Men who support this agenda are more likely to be verbally abusing women on Twitter.

Is it just me - or are female MPs way more likely to be waving the flag here?

No, you're right. It seems that women generally are more likely to be sympathetic to trans ideology than men - even though they have far more to lose from it. Who knows why that is - though my guess is that women have internalised the social pressure to be "kind". MPs aren't exempt from that.

Men seem to generally know what women are (no ones for guessing why).

To complete the circle he can then arrive at Westminster in drag, announce he's been a woman inside all his life and we've to call her Keira

I think Mockers already did that with a memorable name blend...

Al Keir Starmer needs to do is keep his head down, resist the pressure to sign the pledge and the job is his: both women candidates have obligingly shot themselves in the foot.

To complete the circle he can then arrive at Westminster in drag, announce he's been a woman inside all his life and we've to call her Keira.

This use of the "science is complex" mantra to justify trans ideology runs completely counter to the ideology's other main influence, postmodernism, because postmodernism (as spouted by Butler and her acolytes) rejects the idea of objective scientific truth.

Absolutely agree. I have been baffled by how this lunacy has advanced so far, so quickly, but I know one of the things that has enabled its advance is fear. This entire paradigm of # no debate needs to be challenged. This is a battle about freedom of speech and rational debate and those who want to cancel the former and are incapable of the latter.

Is it just me - or are female MPs way more likely to be waving the flag here? Am I imagining it?

Butler's use of impenetrable, arcane language is a deliberate attempt to divert attention from the incoherence of her ideas.

YY to this - and to the rest of your excellent post about conformity. One of the things you keep seeing TRAs and their handmaidens repeating is the idea that biology is complicated. That those of us who think that there are just two sexes are foolish and ignorant and out of date. Anyone who really understands this stuff knows that biology is tremendously complex and there are lots of sexes! Or lots of genders! Or no sexes because sex is a spectrum! You even see scientists occasionally parrot this stuff (e.g. Alice Roberts) even though they must know it's nonsense.

This use of the "science is complex" mantra to justify trans ideology runs completely counter to the ideology's other main influence, postmodernism, because postmodernism (as spouted by Butler and her acolytes) rejects the idea of objective scientific truth.

It literally makes no sense at all.

It's almost as if the entire ideology is a hodge-podge of ill-thought-out quackery.

Frogs
Yes, I think that is a great point. The entire #no debate paradigm is a way of saying sit down and shut up. Many of the people these zealots wish to silence are women.

Or, both sex work is work and men are women if they say so = men most have whatever they want.

And subconsciously many people agree with that.

As to the sex work is work nonsense, I think that is yet another example of the colonisation of modern culture by the porn industry

cat
Yes, it is all very bizarre. It was Lang, with her wisdom, who alerted me to queer theory. Then I read The Madness of Crowds and Douglas Murray is very insightful about the role of Judith Butler et al in all of this. Butler's use of impenetrable, arcane language is a deliberate attempt to divert attention from the incoherence of her ideas, as Douglas Murray points out. But the other thing which is made crystal clear by this abject spectacle of Labour's women twisting themselves into knots parroting this idiotic mantra is that it is the antithesis of individuality. They have been given a list of talking points and an incoherent ideology and they obediently trot it out. None of them have the bottle or integrity to challenge any of it. This is a demonstration of contemptible conformity. There is absolutely nothing individual about it. It is submission. And unfortunately, Labour is replete with craven politicos who are the opposite of what Douglas Murray describes as heroic people. What's even worse is many of them are women, eagerly chucking women's rights and the safeguarding of children straight under the identity politics bus......

'Except that I just can't shake off this feeling about the strangeness of this sexual politics.'

Yes agree.

Really enjoying the discussion of the parties/ and what their politics seems to consist of.

I saw that! Very amusing that she got his name wrong as she flounced.

So, for a brief moment, as the consequence of that Metro interview, Dawn Butler enjoyed a rare moment of looking like the only sane person on the Labour front bench.

So what did Dawn do? Did she enjoy the glory? Did she revel in the fact that for once people weren't talking about how utterly batshit she was? Of course not. She got very very angry with the Metro for "misrepresenting" her! How dare a journalist make her look sane?

twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1229868930283556869

I saw a kitty-fight in twitter between several. Quite amusing - on the level of ‘you are’ ‘NO you are!’ ‘No you’ ‘Nu-huuuuhhhh’. I expect 999 to be called at some point.

To get back on track ...

PermanentTemporary is right.

The group behind this pledge seem to be imploding - having severely undermined the credibility of those who signed this pledge.