Emails to Liz Truss and the response of the Government Equalities Office

I’ve yet to see a direct response from an MP about any of these points. You just get a generic, vulnerable member of the community and be kind. Honestly I’m furious more and more. Every time I think one of these mps has tipped me over the edge. Along comes another one

Well, my MSP has previously helped with implementing change, though on a completely separate (and easily solved) issue.

Totally tempted to just ask her: how many? How many girls and women are enough? And which ones? Because I'm guessing politicians don't mean that their daughters, sisters, mothers - they, themselves - should be comforted by the idea of the full force of the law after the fact.

i might ask her in a very public place. Perhaps she can point to the sacrificial ones, and then advise for whom the full force of the law (1-2%?) will be helpful?

Wellbehavedwomen thank you very much for posting the above link and clarification. I am trying to understand what the law says regarding a service provider's rights and responsibilities regarding single-sex spaces. On that subject, am I correct to understand that a business which has separate changing rooms for men and women (pool, gym, spa) must allow a person with a GRC to use the single sex changing room corresponding to their GRC? If so, how is that enforced? Is it appropriate to ask someone to see their GRC?

I’ve copied this over from a post I just made on the Lisa Nandy thread.

Inspired by MrsSnippyPants eloquent attempt at comms with conservative politicians, I have now made my own attempt with Labour.

This morning, I posted on a local Labour cllrs personal Facebook status in reply to a neighbouring MP who is part of Starmer’s campaign (also posting from a personal account) saying,

‘I was voting Nandy until she said ‘rapists should go to the prison of their choosing’ and that she and Long-Bailey wanted to expel women like me (women who think penises in women’s prisons are a bad idea). My vote for Starmer is begrudging and I would like that fed back to his campaign, please!’

The Leader of our borough council is on the same thread.

Apologies for letting the side down on the eloquence front!

But... the Equalities and Human Rights Commission have issued clarifying guidance. It says:

Under the Act, the protection from gender reassignment discrimination applies to all trans people who are proposing to go, are undergoing or have undergone (part of) a process of gender reassignment. At the same time, a trans person is protected from sex discrimination on the basis of their legal sex. This means that a trans woman who does not hold a GRC and is therefore legally male would be treated as male for the purposes of the sex discrimination provisions, and a trans woman with a GRC would be treated as female. The sex discrimination exceptions in the Equality Act therefore apply differently to a trans person with a GRC or without a GRC.

Quite rightly, you can't treat someone less favourably because they're trans. You can't deny them service, or consideration for a job, or any other area where you couldn't if they were eg black, or gay. But when it comes to sex, it's only discriminatory if you treat them less favourably than someone of their biological sex. Without a GRC, they are to be treated as male if a transwoman, and female if a transman. So it's not discriminatory to say that someone can't access (opposite) single sex provision, surely? I mean, that's why Stonewall et al campaigned so fiercely to get all exemptions removed, and why they want the GRC process made a formality. To reduce occasions when women can still say 'no'. Why campaign for a change, if that were already the law?

I got a similar response from my mp claiming that there are laws to deal with criminal behaviour after the fact.

I pointed out that a prosecution rate of 1.4% for rapes reported to police means rape is effectively legal and how dare he say that girls being raped is acceptable because there is a theoretical law (which doesn't count in reality) to prosecute the rapist.

I also pointed out that it is only where women's and girls safety is concerned that the government seems happy to not bother with obvious risk reduction based on clear and indisputable fact (unisex reduces sexual assault and increases womens participation in public life and girls attendance at school). Shops and homes are expected to lock up (condition of insurance usually) even though stealing is illegal. Shooting people is illegal yet we restrict gun ownership. Etc etc

Medusa
Cheers! But I am not on Twitter....

You may have been the one who posted that Telegraph article in the first place, BovaryX

(P.S. if you get chucked off Mumsnet or twitter, we'll have to do a Spartacus style #MadameBovaryXCEstMoi)

^Re: any problems bring taken care oc under existinglawwww.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/14/poll-reveals-dwindling-faith-police-ability-solve-crimes/^

This is a really excellent point. One of the reasons the Conservatives have won the election was a perception that they were going to be tough on actual crime Harry Miller's case highlights the fact the police, under Stonewall guidelines, are vigorously pursuing people for tweets while failing to investigate burglaries. The Conservatives need to remember that first time Conservative voters didn't switch from Labour for more woke BS. They need to stop taking cues from lobbyists and Twitter.

In awe of your letter writing abilities MrsSnippy

You really got to the crux of the matter.

Re: any problems bring taken care oc under existing law: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/14/poll-reveals-dwindling-faith-police-ability-solve-crimes/

As well as very, very low rates for both rape prosecutions and rape convictions.

Excellent letters, Snippy!

I wonder if any journalists are reading this thread?
I have been writing to my MP for 2 years, but there seems to be a policy of selective listening and responding.

Great work Snippy

The Minister for Women can't find the time to meet concerned women while the government is considering the erasure of biological sex?

"...ensuring safe-spaces are safe for those using them."
So, women's spaces are for female people only, yes?

"Anybody seeking access to spaces such as toilets or changing rooms for malicious or violent purposes can and should be dealt with under existing criminal laws."
Yeah, after the event. "Don't worry, if you're raped you can still call the police."

I have shamelessly copied large chunks of the original email and sent on (with some changes for local relevance) to my Conservative MP. I am not expecting great things. It's Steve Baker.

Under the Equality Act, trans people should be treated according to the gender with which they identify.

I assume they're talking about this paragraph from the Equality Act 2010 Services, public functions and associations Statutory Code of Practice

13. 57 If a service provider provides single- or separate sex services for women and men, or provides services differently to women and men, they should treat transsexual people according to the gender role in which they present. However, the Act does permit the service provider to provide a different service or exclude a person from the service who is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or who has undergone gender reassignment. This will only be lawful where the exclusion is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

The legitimate aim would be to have a single-sex service.

Brilliant. I would steal, but I’m in a rock solid labour seat, so don’t think it would do much good unfortunately

I am pretty certain it states no such thing, but will be happy to be corrected. Ah MrsSnippy

These people are responsible for these areas and they don't even know what's going on. I don't imagine my conservative MP gives a fuck though.

I'm glad you're OK with the plagiarism - it'll get my email over to my MP much quicker that way

I'm drafting a followup to my MP, who has ignored my (paper) letter and emailed copy.

Good tip on the MP-to-Minister relationship!

Albeit a pointless blather about inclusivity, always ignoring the safeguarding question...

R0wantrees
I email and put a copy in the post. I always get a formal written response.

Right Mrs Snippy . You have spurred me to write yet again to my (quietly) supportive Tory MP. He passes my letters on and I get the similar quality evasive, never answering the question responses from a variety of sources.

Onwards and upwards.....