Caroline Flack and CPS criticism

Archie*

it doesn't really prove she was lying. It doesn't prove anything. An 'accident' could mean that in her agitated, possibly suicidal state, she started chucking stuff around and the lamp caught him on the head. I think what she meant in that instagram post is that she didn't pick the lamp up with the specific intention to chuck it at him deliberately

I thought the same.

I also think some people have an agenda regarding this. I commented the other day on the vile witch hunt the jokes that are fathers for justice posted about this lady, to the extent they circulated a poster of her saying 'this is what a domestic abuser looks like' the DAY after the case was first reported. They later said they stood by their comments, funny that as they have removed all the posts now. I have copies though. They disgust me. Current stories on their facebook page name Cheryl (Tweedy now?) as a 'sperm bandit for considering IVF in the future. And Meghan Markle a 'grandparental alienator' for 'abducting' Baby Alfie. Scumbags, the lot of them. Seriously, check out the page. It actually really upset me seeing the reports in the press of just how upset Caroline Flack was due to their witching in particular.

it doesn't really prove she was lying. It doesn't prove anything. An 'accident' could mean that in her agitated, possibly suicidal state, she started chucking stuff around and the lamp caught him on the head. I think what she meant in that instagram post is that she didn't pick the lamp up with the specific intention to chuck it at him deliberately. But we'll never know. What we definitely do know is that she was very mentally unwell and self harmed to the extent she lost a lot of blood and needed to be in hospital for over 12 hours. Very unwell people do very odd things and don't behave rationally.

It wasn't two hours,

The paramedics were in her home for two hours, she then spent twelve hours in hospital, before doctors released her and said she was ok to be questioned, and only then and after release was she questioned by police. So at least 14/15 hours if not more.

Her family have released the social media post she wished to release, and I'm not sure it was a good idea to be honest. In it she says it was an accident she hit him with the lamp. She wasn't well when she wrote that, and I guess she means she wasn't in control when she hit him, but the reason I don't think they should have released it, is because it effectively removes any doubt she did attack him with the lamp as he slept, and shows him to have been lying when he says she didn't.

bobbybluecat

I hear completely what you are saying, but I am still uneasy with the charges brought here. I don't blame the CPS, certainly not her boyfriend, and anyone blaming anyone for a suicide - suicide is way too complex to be the result of any one person or even issue.

That said, I'm uneasy that she was interviewed by the police 2 hours after causing what are said to be deep and life-threatening injuries to herself. She would have been in no fit mental state. I'm uneasy that this has been labelled DV when there and her a serial abuser when there are accounts that the injury occurred as he was trying to prevent her causing herself further injury.

To try and be clearer - I abhor DV and any minimisation of it. But we are simply not party to all the facts here to make any judgement of her guilt. To me, it, it looks like a huge factor here was simply yet another case of our appalling lack of MH provision. She was apparently suffering from significant MH issues for some time before this, measures should have been put in place to stop her being a danger to her, her boyfriend and anyone else. That didn't happen and this keeps happening as our MN services are at crisis point and have been for a long time.

Sorry OP but why not put this on one of the other Caroline threads? Poring over every aspect of this poor woman's life just seems repellant at the moment.

And yet you contribute? I am SO sick of people trying to gain some sort of moral high ground in this way. MH and abuse are issues that desperately need talking about more, that much is agreed. Why is it so wrong to do so when feelings are running high because a young, talented woman has suffered a horrible, needless death. Why is it wrong to call out those labelling her an abuser as though it is fact when she had been found guilty of no crime? Why is it wrong to take issue with the 'men aren't taken seriously brigade' using the death of an innocent by law woman as a platform to make some kind of point?

The sad truth is, the public are fickle and few will care enough about this case in a short time to even pass comment. Until next time. Some of us don't want there to be a next time. Some of us accept that whilst abuse is sadly very common it is also complex, and things are not ALWAYS quite as they seem. Yes, sadly, many victims of DV can retract statements due to fear, Stockholm syndrome, but this will not always be the case. And it is wrong to assume that was his reason in this case. Who are you to try and silence me and others from any debate?

Everyone on MN who has posted about CF should be made to read #bobbybluecat's post.

Imagine the media coverage if the CPS took the decision not to prosecute a female celebrity for an alleged domestic violence incident. What a field day the men’s rights activists would have.

@bobbybluecat - spot on!

Again, could we pull back from discussing CF herself and look at OP’s broader points?

CPS prosecuting without support of the victim, and the differing outcomes between male and female abusers?

There’s the narrative of the brutal man hitting the poor defenceless woman. There’s the “she provoked him” narrative (often seen as “look what you made me do.”) There’s also the added “unnatural” perception of a woman who hits a man, and societal assumptions about “the sort of man who lets a woman hit him”. There’s an awful lot of patriarchal bullshit wound up in our perceptions of DV.

With the deaths of women and girls at a high from DV, the CPS is under pressure to do more. Obviously a case involving someone who features in the tabloids puts them under even more scrutiny, and rampant speculation in the gutter press.

What do we expect from the CPS in these circumstances?

As with previous PP, I entirely agree the focus on whether the CPS should have brought a case exists solely to distract attention away from the papers, the sidebars of shame, a gawping prurient population and a management that exploited CF as an income-generator.

“Look at those meanies! It was them, not us!”

I believe people commit suicide because they are mentally ill, not in response to events. I feel very sorry that Caroline Flack was in that place

I agree.

If CF wasn't petite and pretty people would be responding on a very different manner to her actions imo.

I think the tabloid press is pushing the CPS angle in collusion with a more sinister agenda the tories have for undermining the judiciary and consolidating their power post Brexit.

I think Caroline played a really big personality on screen, confident, vivacious, sassy, so to find out the reality was a very vulnerable woman struggling with mental illness is difficult to under stand, to tie the public persona and the private reality.

People are looking for someone to blame. In every other walk of life, when you hear that someone with severe depression takes their own life, you attribute it to the illness, wonder what more could be done for them, and understand it to a certain degree,

When someone we only saw as bubbly, happy, confident does it, it is difficult to grasp, as it's not the persona we saw. So people are looking for a reason, for someone to blame. It must be the media, it must be the cps, it must be something, someone is to blame.

In reality it's never one factor, but mental illness will have played a signifant part. The issue is that is not the Caroline anyone saw in the media, so it's hard to understand the reality.

"I’m afraid I agree with PP, blaming the CPS deflects from the tabloids and CF’s own management company."

Actually, what all of this does is allow the public, the people who fuel all this buy watching the shows, buying the papers, clicking on the websites, sharing the memes, to blame someone else. All those people were just doing their jobs, successfully, in a market were "we" created demand,

I heard a radio interview this morning with a woman suggesting people who might be suicidal should never be prosecuted (fortunately, Ken McDonald ?? Formerly of the DPP) was there to give a more sensible view.

Ian Huntley attempted suicide whilst awaiting trial for the murder of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman.

I heard a radio interview this morning with a woman suggesting people who might be suicidal should never be prosecuted (fortunately, Ken McDonald ?? Formerly of the DPP) was there to give a more sensible view.

Because let’s consider the consequences of not prosecuting people with mental health issues, or those considering suicide. We would effectively be abandoning criminal justice. No court case, no punishment and no redress for victims.

It is of course right that mental health is taken into consideration before sentencing, which is why judges frequently ask for pre-sentencing reports, but it cannot literally become a get out of jail free card.

I’m afraid I agree with PP, blaming the CPS deflects from the tabloids and CF’s own management company.

I find the whole thing quite difficult to process. I believe people commit suicide because they are mentally ill, not in response to events. I feel very sorry that Caroline Flack was in that place.
I don't think we should be blaming the CPS at all.
I do however think social media has a role because she got so much negative press and lost her job, which must have been hard to deal with if she was feeling low anyway.

@BobbyBlueCat AMAZING post, thank you so much for articulating all that and being a voice of reason.

My other thought is that it would have been fairly easy for the CPS to not prosecute this case. They could have dropped it and then the boyfriend made a statement about how he totally agreed and how marvellous everyone was and then the whole thing disappear whilst leaving the CPS looking quite good.

The fact that they didn’t makes me thing that they were doing what they thought was right.

There is a reasonably similar male equivalent. Mark Salling (Puck from Glee) committed suicide after he was convicted of possession of child abuse images.

His co stars on Glee were abused really quite badly on social media for posting about the sadness of his death. (Even though most of them acknowledged what he had done in the same sentence.)

@BobbyBlueCat, excellent post.

@BobbyBlueCat wonderful read just had an argument with someone in RL along the same lines. Clearly a tragic end to the tale but if the gender were reversed. There is no context in which violence is acceptable. It’s not about context

Bobby Thank you for being able to explain it all so perfectly.

I’m glad you posted here Whatnow40 because I’ve been thinking about this myself. I absolutely agree with the posters commenting that it suits the tabloids to blame the CPS in order to distract from their own coverage over the past few months.

Those who say that the CPS should not have prosecuted because her boyfriend did not want to press charges must know very little about domestic violence. We would all be rightly outraged and fear a woman was being coerced if a case against a man were dropped in similar circumstances.

However, the coverage of her attendance at the magistrate’s courts was incredibly over the top. I kept on trying to remember if a high profile man charged with a similar offence had got the same sort of treatment. I couldn’t come up with anyone.

I think there are a lot of really things about celebrity culture that this sad case has highlighted.

There was a radio programme this morning about a helpline for men who have experienced domestic abuse. It operates on a shoestring and nearly closed down last year. That is the reality for organisations providing this service, not high profile cases that are tragic for the individuals concerned, their families and friends but which are not typical.

BobbyBlueCat Well said.