Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

I’ve been following this whole circus of idpol and gender for about...ooooh....seven years now? and back in the halcyon days where it was largely confined to the internet, one of the hard lines was always that male rapists wouldn’t ever be permitted to exploit greater accommodations for trans people, such as a move to the female estate. they were obviously “not true trans” by virtue of their crimes, and basically all bets were off. feminists who raised it as a possibility, or in fact, the logical end point of the direction of travel were openly mocked for being paranoid fantasists (I know, because I was).

a few short years later, egged on from the peanut gallery, politicians are rolling out the fucking red carpet to make it happen.

But we were told it would never happen.

Yet here we are.

And christ alive, stop talking about bogs, Robin. that is not what is at issue here, and you know it.

*Labour - for the few, not the many.’

Labour - for the men -y, not for you!

It's interesting that the Mail story is now right near the top of the news stories, so it's obviously had a lot of clicks! (And almost 600 shares on Facebook, to boot...)

Labour - for the few, not the many.

No - it's clearly....

For the men, not the many

Labour - for the males, women forget it.

I can' believe that two labour leadership candidates have openly said that they will take away women's sex based legal definition and rights. Openly. They're not even trying to hide it anymore.

It would be interesting to see one of these women politicians actually put their money where their mouth is and spent 24 hours or so locked up in a women's prison where a sex offender TW is. No privilege, no cameras, incognito as another prisoner and let's seek them get naked in a communal shower with the sexual harassment and leering that prison guards are describing women enduring in prisons, let's see them handle the fear of being locked in a space with a male who is in prison due to the enjoyment of hurting and sexually abusing females.

And let them then explain how lovely and virtuous it is that these females are so worthily suffering for the male to be happier and to be certain he exists.

Honestly, if you can only exist as your 'true self' by making others humiliated, oppressed, frightened, excluded, uncomfortable, intimidated and stripped of their equality ....

I am still shocked by that video, the fully transparent idiocy in full view. Well Lisa, you have helped open more eyes to this whole sordid affair.
Only one good thing has come out of this, my DW has now woken up to this.

Labour - for the few, not the many.

www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/17384498.worcester-transgender-woman-previously-convicted-of-rape-breaches-order/

This is Christopher Worton, the rapist that Julia Long specifically mentioned in her question to Lisa Nandy. Worton now identifies as Zoe Lynes.

Well, I believe that Lisa Nandy has publicly said it - and we have video evidence of it. So yes, I would justifiably think Lisa Nandy believes that male child rapists should be able to self ID as women and be housed in women's prisons.

I would say that would clearly be the result of the kind of policy she is supporting.

It would be interesting to see, if you put an actual child rapist, or maybe a plain ol' rapist of women, who was really claiming to be a transwoman, in front of her, and asked, should this person be housed in a cell with this other woman right here, or mingle with these other women you see here, in their common spaces, what she might say.

Daily Mail have picked it up now:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8012193/Labour-trans-rights-row-Lisa-Nandy-says-rapists-transition-sent-womens-prisons.html

(Sorry if this has been posted before, it's a long thread and I'm supposed to be working.

Some of the comments are heartening.

Well if anyone on here didn’t understand what a narcissist sounds like, this is a great thread to read!

I think child rapists should face the death penalty.

In November 2018 Dorothy Springer Secondary school in Brighton had 40 pupils that “do not identify as [the] gender presented at birth” and further 36 identified as gender-fluid.

I wonder what the numbers are now.

(Personally I would hope that 100% of students were gender fluid/gender non-conforming/gender rebellious)

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr?wgu=270525_54264_15819570314031_5d5c2e80b3&wgexpiry=1589733031&utm_source=planit&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=22278
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3433540-School-in-Brighton-with-76-trans-gender-fluid-kids

Do you think Lisa Nandy really believes that? It’s like she’s trolling this forum.

Well, I believe that Lisa Nandy has publicly said it - and we have video evidence of it. So yes, I would justifiably think Lisa Nandy believes that male child rapists should be able to self ID as women and be housed in women's prisons.

(1/100. Deffo not Robin’s 1/3000. The average secondary school is about 1500 round here and each class seems to have around 2/3 trans identifying children in it, which is more like 1/50!)

merail 😂

Stonewall says the best estimate for number of trans people in Britain is 600,000.

www.stonewall.org.uk/truth-about-trans#trans-people-britain

The fact that you have chosen to use a thread about rapists in women's prison as a platform to talk about what you want to talk about says a lot about you, but that's your look out.
I know this isn't grey rocking, but I'd just like to say I first came to a similar thread this board over a year ago, and it was illogical me-railing that opened my eyes to this whole ridiculous business. As long as the thread gets back to its focus, I say it's all good!

Maybe Robin does not include those that are defined by the Stonewall umbrella (is this a transphobic prejudice or a lack of current information?). Have no idea where that 1:3000 figure they draw on comes from and they probably do not care to update their thinking to correct it.

I dont use them for any form of validation.

Poor Robin - did you think we were talking about you? Bless...

Please, can I encourage the women posting on the thread not to follow Robin into a discussion about toilets. It's not the thread topic, and we really shouldn't lose sight of the extremely serious issues around women's safety in prisons.

Is a grey rock in order here?

Bunbury? Is that you?

Christ, I can't believe someone has come into a discussion about vulnerable women being forced into incarceration with a male rapist (or any other male criminal), just to merail.

Robin, do you have any idea how this makes you look, do you even care?

As for Nandy she is an empty vessel just spouting whatever crap she has been fed by advisors, there is no depth to her thinking, in fact there is no thinking at all.

I dont use them for any form of validation.

Why do you use them, then?

For the same reason that everyone else does...

I dont use them for any form of validation.

Why do you use them, then?

What does that 12-20,000 figure even refer to?

There are around 3,800 women in prison in the UK, so it’s not that.

There are around 3,500 male born transitioners with GRCs so it’s not that

There are an estimated 600,000 trans people in the UK (Stonewall figures) so it’s not that.

There are around 79,000 prisoners in the male estate, so it’s not that.

1 in 50 prisoners have declared a trans identity, so that’s approx 1640 across both estates, or 1580 if the one in 50 applies to the male estate only, so it’s not that.

There are 125 official trans prisoners according to the MOJ, so it’s not that.

40% of those prisoners are held in sex offender or maximum security prisons (52), so it’s not that.

Incarcerated sex offender numbers in 2018 were 13,535 - is that it? Because there is definitely more than one transgender person convicted of serious offences against minors in that figure, off the top of my head, Carrie Cooper, Zoe Lynes, Jacinta Brooks, the anonymous 60 year old that took the NHS to the high court to try and get genital surgery funded. Karen White had previous convictions for sexual offences against a primary age child...

The TranscrimeUK website is sure to have more, should anyone fancy a gander. Of course, we know little of those who transition after being convicted, unless they hit the news due to an appeal or reoffending under the new name after release. I call this POGD (Prison Onset Gender Dysphoria).

Men who commit sexual offences against children are at risk of violence from other male prisoners, so identifying as transgender and applying for a transfer to a facility for women makes perfect sense as a survival strategy. It’s up to the prison system to ensure it isn’t ‘gamed’ in this way, but top down policies recommended by Stonewall and lapped up by naive politicians such as Lisa Nandy make their job harder than it needs to be.

5 child rapists in a male prison estate of 79,000 is a drop in the ocean. 5 child rapists in the female estate of under 4,000 is a much more significant number, and the female estate isn’t designed for their needs anyway.

Much better to keep them on vulnerable prisoner wings in the male estate. More efficient. Appropriately trained staff.