WHO are SOOO transphobic!!

So do sex-based differences matter or not?

They matter but so do a whole ton of other feminist issues which are routinely getting shoved to the side on this board

True

Ok, but it will turn into a derail if you keep talking about it.So let’s get
back to the OP.

But why tho, why can't anyone answer lol

Why though? It's not a sodding derail, just I questioned something lol.

Ok, but it will turn into a derail if you keep talking about it.

So let’s get back to the OP. Can you answer my questions on sex-based differences in medical data? Which sex category should a transwoman with coronavirus virus be recorded in?

So do sex-based differences matter or not?

They matter but so do a whole ton of other feminist issues which are routinely getting shoved to the side on this board.

It must be ever so confusing for you Wotcha with that derail from someone else up thread so let’s get it back to the OP

Why though? It's not a sodding derail, just I questioned something lol.

Uh huh. Tell me, would you use that phrase: "You people are obsessed it's ridiculous" to tell black people their activism was obsessive?
Don't conflate black people with trans rights.
I've been told this before on here, so just giving you the heads up. It's in no way comparable and highly insulting.

@AppleTree76 You people are obsessed it's ridiculous

Uh huh. Tell me, would you use that phrase: "You people are obsessed it's ridiculous" to tell black people their activism was obsessive? Would you call Black Lives Matter a hate organisation, for that matter (most Trump supporters do, so yep, there's excellent precedent, if you're into that kind of language about people defending their rights).

Funny thing, how intensely relaxed people are when abusing women over this. Misogyny's just fine, when aimed at women who won't do what men tell them to. People happily use language, tropes and silencing strategies that would be deemed abhorrent if aimed at black people, gay people, or disabled people, simply defending their own rights... well. One would hope.

You can explain something to me, though. Trans activists have endless meetings and demonstrations and pledges to try to force us into submission. Tad obsessive, no? The determination of those with male bodies to force themselves into women's spaces, and conversations, without our consent, and the determination to isolate and deplatform and abuse and harass women who say no, actually, I know what a woman is, and it's not a male, and our rights matter, too? Little bit on the obssessive front, to go to the papers if women don't want to share spaces with male bodies, for extremely good safeguarding, privacy, and dignity reasons - so why the endless, vehement, often vindictive determination to force us, even when there are perfectly good unisex options available? Why the need for our physical presence? What's that about - why the HUGE FUSS on it?

I mean, I'd never call any group, "you people" because it's othering and offensive - I don't think any human beings should be addressed like that, ever - but it's certainly hypocritical, given the endless bullying of women, to say women refusing to stand for someone else's obsessional demands when they are directly affected are obsessed. If we stop being bullied into sacrificing the very definition of what it is to be female, then we'll stop talking about it. Sounds a fabulous idea to me!

Women as a collective get to decide what a woman is. Not men. "Nothing about us without us" is the phrase of choice, I'm told. You may be familiar with it.

I'm interested though, in hearing why you feel that that's wrong. Why we should be erased completely as a sex class, so we can't be defined, can't collectively defend our interests, and can't work together to that end? Why we should be denied the right to single sex spaces? And why that is controversial? What does it take from anyone else, if women want to share private space with only those of our own biology? Why is that offensive to some males?

Nobody has ever been able to explain what a woman is, if it's not biology, not sexist stereotypes, and more than "a feeling in one person's head" which.. I mean, come on. You need more than that before you erase other people's rights and call them bigots for minding. Don't you?

Although I can understand that I'm still not sure where toilets come into it though if that was on here?

It must be ever so confusing for you Wotcha with that derail from someone else up thread so let’s get it back to the OP.

There are sex-based differences noted in the effects of coronavirus. You accept there are biological differences between men and women.

Do you think it’s important to record the sex of a person with regards to important medical data?

Which category do you think transwomen should be recorded in if they were affected by coronavirus: male or female?

I'm still not sure where toilets come into it though if that was on here?

@ a comment to whichever poster said it - I'm sure they can elucidate? No clue, personally.

It really is astounding, LastTrainEast. The school curriculum is failing quite a lot of people.

Thanks 006 although I am now sexually confused by the length of my fingers

We need more of these not less. Call it education since somehow people are reaching adulthood (at least in years) without knowing there's a biological difference between the two sexes. Amazing I know, but it's quite true.

Although I can understand that I'm still not sure where toilets come into it though if that was on here?

it was a joke. A silly online meme about how men and women are more or less likely to be able lift a chair in a certain way, because centre of gravity, or feet size, or some such thing I don't even remember.

Ah right, OK thanks for explaining as had completely passed me by, must have missed that meme if so

You people are obsessed it's ridiculous

Chair sex thingy

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7738241/Chair-challenge-couples-hysterics-women-easily-complete-task-men-it.html

Oh right, Willis thinks the appropriate response to the topic of this thread is to make 'jokes' about a comment someone upthread made who only ever posts to tell other posters they shouldn't be posting (so rather obviously not interested in the topic) and then claim theywant to know all about the detail in that obviously off topic scold

Eh? No idea who the other poster was, I was going by the comment - I just asked how chair lifting ability and toilets were comparable! So I asked.

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis it was a joke. A silly online meme about how men and women are more or less likely to be able lift a chair in a certain way, because centre of gravity, or feet size, or some such thing I don't even remember.

Nobody means it seriously.

Oh right, Willis thinks the appropriate response to the topic of this thread is to make 'jokes' about a comment someone upthread made who only ever posts to tell other posters they shouldn't be posting (so rather obviously not interested in the topic) and then claim theywant to know all about the detail in that obviously off topic scold.

Perhaps Google is some other search function is your friend here, Willis. It's not the topic of this thread and is, therefore, a derail. Thanks for the contribution.

@Coyoacan - I suspect so they can show other people, elsewhere, what they're doing. It's not as if good faith arguments are made.

It's not what matters, though. What matters is that this is as far from #NoDebate as possible. They don't get to frame the terms here, or restrict access to information, as is done elsewhere. As long as we're polite, and factual, we can explain our perspectives, as of course can those with opposing views, and let other people reading make their own minds up. That's how a free society is supposed to work. Or so I was always led to believe. Seems Owen Jones's version of Democracy 101 missed those pages out.

Jeez barracker.

So glad I am here when people like you post on here.

Education here

Ta

All women should here you

I don't really care if some people accept trans women as women, whatever that means. Some people think everyone has a guardian angel, or that when we die we go to heaven or hell, or god really listens to people's prayers.

I am pretty pissed off, though, that nonsensical beliefs about gender identity are being enshrined in laws, the legal meaning of woman is being ruined which has serious implications for MY sex-based rights, people are losing jobs or being pulled up by police for stating commonly held views, and everyone has to play along with this farce whether they like it or not.

The gender identity religion has no right to dictate and impose its ideology on those who do not subscribe to such beliefs. Have your separate spaces where you cis and trans believers can practice your religion and leave the rest of us out of it. Keep your beliefs out of your professional life the way so many other religious people do. Keep your beliefs out of schools. Your ideology is no more important than any other belief system. It's high time the gender identity folx learned this.

That's because you're being wilfully ignorant as you think it's
a) making you look clever, and b) making some kind of point Just FYI it's doing neither

? It was literally brought up upthread and I wanted to know what it was referring to as I must have missed that thread?
Does anyone have a link? As I've tried looking but can't see a chair lifting so you go in this toilet thread and can only surmise it must have been a comment in a thread? Context would be good

I read a very long and clear post about the importance of words and why we cannot call people who are not women, women, and then WotchaTalkinBoutWillis pops on with her/his comment that shows he/she hasn't bothered to read any of it.

Why do people supposedly want to discuss issues but not bother to read what they other person is saying?

Men and women are biologically different.

That statement would be regarded as transphobic. "Transwomen are women and therefore their biology is simply an alternative form of female biology." Alternative body types means transwomen are just different women in the same way a woman with a mastectomy is, allegedly. Even if you're trans yourself, your statement is still categorised these days as transphobic. Hey, I don't make the rules.

It's not going to make me not accept trans women though.

Glad to hear it. Prejudice is obnoxious. I am all for celebrating anyone living in a way that makes sense to them, in their one, short, challenging and complicated and unique life. I agree gender roles are bullshit, and people should be free to live in whatever way they like. BUT - sex is real, and so is sex based oppression.

I don't care about someone's gender expression. That's their business. I care that women as a sex class - my own group - retain our rights, freedoms, protections and provisions, and if you allow the definition of what a woman is to be determined by males and opened up on a self-ID basis to other males, then you lose all those provisions, because they have become, by literal definition, unisex. Every single properly conducted survey has found that the vast majority of women want to keep single sex provision. Yet our voices on our own lives are dismissed as worthless. That's the epitome of misogyny.

Human rights belong to all human people. That does not mean non-female human people belong in women's single sex spaces, and there's no abuse of human rights in saying opposite sexed people do not belong in single sex provision. If you don't mind, and you are female, that's your prerogative. What isn't your prerogative is consenting for other women. That's not how consent works.

Women have the right to give or withhold consent on which males enter the spaces where we are vulnerable. We have the right to organise, and to meet, and to talk amongst ourselves as a sex class. We have the right to the deciding vote on legal changes on what defines a woman, because 'nothing about us without us'. This would not be controversial in a rights-based, civilised, democratic society.

Biological males don't get to tell women what we can talk about, and with whom. They absolutely don't get to tell us who we are.