WHO are SOOO transphobic!!

Has anyone said transwomen or transmen can’t be themselves? Not on this thread, not generally on this forum.

Nope.

Although I thought that transpeople didn't want to be 'themselves' - hence transitioning.

Wanting to be myself rather than what society expected of me based on my sex is the reason I'm a feminist.

Everyone is free to be themselves. But material reality remains, and there are times it is significantly more relevant than how we see ourselves or wish to be seen by others.

Why is this even a controversial or confusing thought for anyone who has moved past their 10th birthday?

Has anyone said transwomen or transmen can’t be themselves?

Exactly. It's the hyperbolic, overdramatic and black and white thinking so often demonstrated when women stand up for their rights.

Females have needs based on being female. Females cannot be transwomen, its not possible. They are a separate group and are entitled in some situations to their own spaces.

If any females under any circumstances having anything at all that is solely for females causes someone not female to feel they can't be themselves.... they're demonstrating a bit of a problem that they need to take responsibility for. 'I can't be happy unless ALL rights and provisions and even the class definition is removed from half the human race' isn't anywhere near the bounds of reasonability, or even rationality.

Has anyone said transwomen or transmen can’t be themselves? Not on this thread, not generally on this forum.

The problem is when everyone else is meant to accept transgender people as what they want us to accept them as when it’s in direct conflict with what we know them to be and the conflict of rights that generates.

If you think their sex should be recognised for medical purposes, but not for other reasons, such as access to single sex spaces, why the discrepancy? Where does it change over from being important to not important for you?

So if you don’t think people can change sex Wotcha, do you think transwomen should be recorded as male for medical purposes?

If your medical treatment hinges on biological treatment , yes it's important to record as such.
Why does that stop trans men or trans women being able to be themselves though?

So if you don’t think people can change sex Wotcha, do you think transwomen should be recorded as male for medical purposes?

I ask repeatedly because you came on this thread and LOL’d at the notion of people trying to make sure sex-based differences are acknowledged and pushing back against the ideology that such statements are transphobic. You think it’s funny for some reason. Yet you acknowledge there are biological differences between men and women. Aren’t you, therefore, in favour of maintaining the notion that biology exists, sex-based differences exist and it’s no laughing matter when ideology tries to convince the world otherwise?

Simple questions, I don’t know why you’re avoiding answering them...

It's not bingo anything. If you believe that trans women are women and that you can change biological sex

Has anybody on here actually said they think you can biologically change sex?
As if they have I must have missed that post?

Ah thanks, Ebooks for the thread link, will have a read

Oh and WHO are not being transphobic because obviously trans women are women and they can change biological sex. Only males need worry about the coronavirus.

exWifebeginsAgainat46

It's not bingo anything. If you believe that trans women are women and that you can change biological sex then no middle aged trans women need fear Coronavirus.

@WotchaTalkinBoutWillis OP says:

I suggest that a chair is placed outside every public toilet and if you can pick it up - as outlined in the challenge - then you can use the women's facility. If not, you have to use the men's.

The situations in England and Scotland are mirrors, then. In both cases the male/female markers of every patient are entered into a pooled barrel of accurate and inaccurate M/F statuses. In both cases any patient can alter their status upon request.

In England, the barrel is labelled 'current gender'. In Scotland, the barrel is labelled 'sex'. Neither labels are appropriate, given that the data contained within is a mishmash of both for different people.

If my English medical record data was migrated into a Scottish medical record, presumably there is a written database rule instructing that data from the 'current gender' English field is to be transferred into the Scottish 'sex' field.

Barracker. If you moved to Scotland, and we'd love to have you, you would be given a Community Health Index (CHI) number which has a sexmarker in it. But this is the problem. You can ask to change your sex marker ( not gender marker mind) and then for all intents and purposes your sex becomes the opposite sex. This is incredibly dangerous as any laboratory etc will see your CHI and assume you are the sex on the CHI and test accordingly. Several of us have long been saying there should be a trans marker on the CHI or, if the sexmarker can be changed, then an additional marker to show it has changed. At some point this will lead to some tragedy and clinicians are terrified that they will be the ones carrying the can.

Mamello, you are absolutely correct that Scotland has different architecture.
I haven't done a FOI requesting a count of the number of records in the Scottish Sex field, vs the Scottish gender fields. I've only done it for England and Wales.

I do think it would be interesting to find out.

Even if a Scottish patient had their records transferred to England or Wales, any female or male data would be transferred into the 'current gender' field in the NHS E&W spine.

And now I'm wondering what would happen if I moved to Scotland. How would my data be rendered when changing from an English to a Scottish record? My sex field is empty.

Barracker. This isn't true for Scotland. But you can change your sex field if you wish and your GP supports you.

This virus has killed 100s including children of people and you are all sat here with your phones and laptops discussing a trans debate! Shame on you all!

And if you caught COVID19, or had a heart attack, would you like to be treated according to your sex or your gender identity?

I am transgender so I am not going to sit and read stuff that's rubbish!

So you haven't read it yet you feel confident in dismissing it as rubbish.
More accurately, "I am transgender so I am not going to sit and read stuff that questions me in any way!".

Barracker

I don't really know what else to say to your info / post. If it wasn't for FWR, and learning so much about the latest undermining of women's rights and freedoms, I'd think you were wearing the mother of all tin foil hats.

@Barracker perfectly said and agree 100%. You are my favourite poster on the Feminism Board. I do wish all these people who pretend they are bored would go somewhere else instead of constantly filling up our threads with their rubbish.

Barracker

I have no words in response to that giant fuck up

The very idea of categorising people based on some apparently indescribable inner 'feeling' of being masculine or feminine that is also nothing to do with your actual sex (that's as far as I've got as an actual definition of gender identity from people who believe in it) is ridiculous.

I don't have a gender identity. I have a sex.

If it matters, sex should be recorded. If it doesn't matter, we don't need to record sex or gender identity because that tends to lead to more of the sexism that feminists and, apparently, genderists want to avoid.

Barracker

I’m just at that. Just....don’t know what to say. Thanks for bringing it to my attention though.

The effects of a virus on the human body - which is either Male or female with distinct and important differences - It really doesn't give a shit which of a thousand "genders" you decide to express today, if you catch it, it will affect your body in different ways according to your biology. You can't don a frock or grow a goatee to trick your way out of it. I'm not a doctor but the ignorance of some in denying this or minimising it's importance of calling it transphobic, makes me hope to fuck they ain't my GP.

So yes, trans is highly relevant to many medical discussions. It's so bloody obvious.

At least we've moved on from taking about lifting chairs though.

Thanks for that link, SpartacusLangClegicus it's a well written and well argued paper. I wonder if Sarah is on Mumsnet?

I'd like to speak to her.

The error she makes in her paper is the assumption that the data that changes on a medical record is the patient's sex data, resulting in most people retaining accurate sex data, and a minority having inaccurate sex data as per their request.

This isn't actually what occurs. In actual fact it's far worse.

What's on your medical record, sex or gender?

We all have a field for sex AND a field for gender identity on our medical records. The data architecture was devised a decade ago precisely to capture BOTH for all the reasons Sarah argued in her paper.

But for reasons unknown, instead of implementing a system whereby we all have the sex field accurately populated, and some people have their identity field populated too, to reference how they would like to be addressed, what has happened is this:

ALL OF US HAVE NIL DATA IN THE SEX FIELD.

The only reference to male or female that can be found on any of our medical records, is in the "CURRENT GENDER" field.

We've all been assigned a gender identity, on our medical records, instead of a sex. And although there is a field for our sex, (it's label is "phenotypic sex" and its description is that it should be observed and not self stated); it is empty. For all of us.
Our sex is not recorded, at all. The only references to whether we are male or female on our medical records is to be found in the "current gender" field, which is described as 'self-stated, not observed'.
This is the field that is used in any and every work of data analysis performed using NHS data.
We're not stratifying medical data by sex.
We're doing it by gender identity.

'gender identities' of the UK population are an unholy mixup of records that have been changed upon request and do not reflect biological sex, records that would be accurate, if they were use to infer biological sex, and probably, clerical errors.

And there is NO WAY to tell which is which.

It's like putting a single poisoned apple in a barrel of apples and shaking them.
There's no way to identify which is poisoned, and which is not.
The entire barrel is now no good.

What is it that you want, exWifebeginsAgainat46?

Should we NOT reference sex, ever, even where it affects whether you die or not?

I think they want you to not speak full stop. Adult Human Females should not speak, meet, laugh, vote with their conscience, stand up for themselves against violence, advocate for their medical/employment/educational needs, go to the bog in peace, wish to not be raped.