Nandy on R4

We always knew they didn't like it.

They're now perfectly open about the fact that in their minds, women talking, gathering mentioning having rights, meeting, is wrong, is in itself hateful and should not be allowed .

They could not have made it any fucking clearer.

The Labour Campaign for Trans Rights pledges are insane - particularly: "Organise and fight against transphobic organisations such as Woman’s Place UK, LGB Alliance and other trans-exclusionist hate groups."

Do we know exactly who the originators are? I feel it's almost like a spoof designed to catch out the "woke". I can't really believe the group exists. Still, I find it even harder to believe politicians have signed it.

They don’t like women talking. Gathering. Having meetings

Having opinions

I agree that WPUK and LGB Alliance should consider a libel action.

I am so angry. I've been angry about this before.

I am so sad. I've been so sad about this before.

This is the first time I've been this scared.

Who else will they expel?

They must know that the percentage of the electorate who don't agree with their stance on this is greater than the percentage who do agree. They must know this.

They've ruined their chances. They've made this a hill to die on and they've made their choice.

They don't care about us.

In agreement with the above.

He needs to lead a fucking common sense revolution if he ever wants to be PM though he won't. None of them will ever, ever stand a remote chance of becoming PM. And as things stand the Labour Party doesn't stand a chance of getting back into Government in any of our lifetimes.

Yeah Michelle

It’s like women and girls are just to be irrelevant to labour and snp politicians

We are fine to be used when they want to talk about us as victims

But treated as people with rights. Nope

I feel a bit freaked out by all this tbh.

The fact that they are doubling down shows that these four politicians have not given this issue one minute of constructive thought, not considered calmly any of the points that are made so reasonably and eloquently by feminists. Not taken seriously the point that men as a sex class impose risk of violence on women as a sex class.

This. What HumphreyCobblers said. Except that I think Starmer understands. He will be as vague as he can get away with to get him through the leadership race. How fucking depressing though that none of the women get it.

Starmer is as bad as any of them; he's just bright enough not to open his mouth until he's got what he wants.

I always really, deep down, thought it was a lack of thinking things through. That no one could really be consciously, deliberately this hating of women (particularly other women), this unfair, this unjust, stand behind something so basically morally wrong. And I'm not talking about trans, nothing to do with trans, I'm talking about the moral wrongness of removing rights from women. 50% of the bloody country.

It's very clear now it's not that they don't understand or know what they are doing. They are just so soaked in their warped values that they believe harming women and hating on women having rights is a virtuous thing to do. Can anyone think of any other societies where people have warped a political belief into 'harming and dehumanising and taking rights from x group/groups in our society is a good thing to serve our political vision'?

I can think of several. I'm just lost in disbelief this can happen.

Lisa - the needs of one trans girl/women in her constituency out-ways the needs of every other girl/woman in her constituency.

Trans girls/women need care compassion and tailored evidence based healthcare. This can be done without trampling in the rights of the 51%.

Sex is real, science is real, girls and women are real.

I guess Starmer feels he's pushed his luck as far as he dare in not signing the Trans pledge. If he doesn't sign this one he'll be sacrificed on the Altar of Woke by sunset.

Frankly, the sooner the Tories bring in the boundary changes and put what's left of this party out its misery the better. It can't be saved now, and its openly-declared authoritarian impulses are danger to democracy.

He needs to lead a fucking common sense revolution if he ever wants to be PM though
Oh yes, he needs to, doesn't he? Like Thornberry, Long Bailey et al need a brain transplant.
But I find it no comfort whatsoever that he is clever enough not to sign something that is libellous (he is a lawyer, after all) but signs something just as damaging to women.
All it signals, loud and clear, to me is that he is not absolutely stupid, but is equally happy to sell women down the river

As someone on Twitter just said ‘ it’s like they’re all vying to be President of the NUS’

At least Starmer has the sense to keep relatively quiet about this nonsense. Relatively. He needs to lead a fucking common sense revolution if he ever wants to be PM though. I think the first step would have to be him identifying the donation streams which keep Labour politicians telling these Big Lies day after day.

@MaMaLa321

Thanks for sharing

Keir Starmer has signed up to the reformation of the GRA to introduce self ID and that he agrees with the notion trans women are women.

All the labour candidates have thrown women and girls under a bus.

Penis free spaces will be a thing of the past if Labour gets in.

Starmer has signed a pledge. It is not the pledge.

It’s still fully self id but doesn’t mention WPUK or sound quite so much like it was written by a bunch of drunk 15yos.

I heard this on R4 earlier and looked up this person (I have not the slightest interest in Labour politics so tend to zone out usually) and was amazed to see she is MP for Wigan. I know Wigan and area very well and grew up around there, and am ASTONISHED that folk there would vote for someone like this. It's one of those places where most working class folks have always voted Labour without thinking, as my parents did, and sadly looks like there's been no change. They are clearly not following this kind of nonsensical shite or they would indeed be changing their vote. I bet she doesn't go campaigning around there and knocking on doors talking about trans women etc.

what Starmer believes - is this much better?
twitter.com/LGBTLabour/status/1227654076453859331/photo/1

He has just signed the pledge Magic

A few weeks ago I made it my mission to send one email a day about our personal circumstance/rise in referrals to the Tavi/risks of “born in wrong body” mantra/risks of transition etc. Picking today’s recipient was easy. I always get ignored but maybe one day someone will stop to think this really isn’t right.

No one ever faces the 'no to any penis free spaces permitted to the half the human race people who are women' with 'well what the fuck would you like your tax payers who now can't use any women's spaces or in fact any spaces at all to do? Are you happy to deprive those women of any public resources as a fitting punishment for heresy? Disabled women, women of faith, all stupid and undeserving so should be stripped of equal resources?'

Stupid bat. Seething this morning. They are openly exposing the utter arrogant lack of any kind of inclusive or compassionate or even basically socialist thinking here, there's just a lot of lip service and hypocrisy. It's revolting. It's no longer just fashionable to look down on women, it's become actively virtuous and DoublePlusGood to spit on them.

but he's not. He's just too clever to be associated with the other flailing imbeciles. Just read the pledge he HAS signed. It's not much comfort to me.

Calm down bollocks. Go on then, tell the TRAs on Twitter to calm down.

'calm down' = 'shut up unless you agree without question'

I'll eat my hat if anyone other than Starmer wins. He is smart enough to remain vague and non committal on this issue.

I turned on the radio after the start of the interview by chance. I thought they were interviewing one of the nut jobs behind this pledge. So I was confused when at the end she was asked other stuff briefly. And then when Justin said “thank you Lisa Nandy” I was speechless.

So let’s be clear, Nandy does not believe there should be any same sex only spaces in the U.K. and equates women/trans women issues with child soldiers from different sides.

I was astounded and appalled.

I keep marvelling at the stupidity of this. Any sensible person would have uttered some soothing words about respecting all points of view, the importance of having a reasoned debate etc. Instead she's defamed Ruth Serwotka and Woman's Place UK, antagonised huge numbers of Labour Party members who might have been considering voting for her and, furthermore, alienated the very people - working-class northerners - whose support Labour are trying to win back after losing it so catastrophically in the last election.

To use that favourite phrase of Mumsnetters: is she on glue?