Nandy on R4

This video is doing the rounds online as "proof" of WPUK's transphobia, even though WPUK say they can't see the video and have pointed people to all the videos of public events.

Does anyone know what meeting this is from? mobile.twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1177953893994635264

Do we know exactly who the originators are? I feel it's almost like a spoof designed to catch out the "woke". I can't really believe the group exists. Still, I find it even harder to believe politicians have signed it.

You can find out who some of the originators are online. It isn't a spoof. As I said in another thread it reminds me of this:

https://edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

I hope WPUK do take legal action. There are plenty of us, I'm sure, who are no longer paying party membership or union fees who will be happy to divert our saved subs to a crowdfunder.

In the last 48 hours a women in a breastfeeding old babies Facebook page was demonised for replying to a women calling it chest feeding by politely sharing a link on why calling it breastfeeding is important.

Followed by my 3 YEAR OLD returning from nursery to tell me that 'F' was wearing a spinny dress today and doesn't want to play with the boys anymore and now I'm deeply worried that instead of 'F' being allowed to freely expressed he could be at the start of a trans journey because his parents are that kind of parent.

I don't view my beliefs as radical I have no problems sharing women's spaces with transwomen who have fully committed to living as women but I don't want dick in the same changing room as my daughter's. Why is that seen as so extreme?

I'm just angry, really angry.

They are openly exposing the utter arrogant lack of any kind of inclusive or compassionate or even basically socialist thinking here, there's just a lot of lip service and hypocrisy. It's revolting. It's no longer just fashionable to look down on women, it's become actively virtuous and DoublePlusGood to spit on them.

This.

I'm shocked at their complete lack of leadership skills actually, lack of passion, dynamism, inspiration. They just do not instil confidence at all.

I'm not sure if it is because my rose-tinted spectacles broke, but the are all very lacklustre, and I can't see any of them having potential to be in government at the moment (or ever TBH).

I actually have the listen again primed to play, but I am not sure I want to bother. What's the point?

I've noticed a few labour MPs saying this topic never came up on the doorstep.

It certainly will the day they rock up on my doorstep. They lost thousands of votes in this constituency in the last election.

Do we know exactly who the originators are?

They appear to all be troubled, trans or non binary people in their twenty's who need to 'fight for their existence' against individuals and groups who have a 'fundamental hatred of trans people'

They all seem very immature with little life experience. If any of them have a job they never mention it on social media and lots seem to live with their Mums. I guess that must the fault of us awful Mumsnetters?

And yes, I'm beyond furious at them slandering WPUK, calling them a hate group.

Labour MPs calling a women's group, made up of many Labour trade unionists, a "hate group." Signing pledges stating this.

WPUK would be well within their rights to take legal action about that.

The thing is though is that they are not listening. I don’t believe they lost a single voter because they weren’t woke enough on TWAW but they’re losing members and votes the more hardline they become. They’re not remotely listening at all

#labourisdead

They're all on Vic Derbyshire - I'm watching it in rewind.

I'm sorry, but they are all beyond useless. I wouldn't vote for any of them. Even Keir - once a pretty good ally to women's issues when he was in the CPS - has lost the plot.

I'm shocked at their complete lack of leadership skills actually, lack of passion, dynamism, inspiration. They just do not instil confidence at all.

A load of useless soundbites where they all agree "we've got to listen more" and they're all apologising for the result all over the shop....practically prostrating themselves before the audience of their lost voters Jeez. Bloody useless.

In this household we are more angry that we can express. To have female politicians who would describe themselves as feminists parroting TWAW and supporting the expulsion of feminist women who hold perfectly rational, science-based, feminist views that do no harm to anyone is completely dystopian.

I agree with those who are scared. If Nandy et al genuinely believe this then what the hell are we doing with such thoughtless, dim people in positions of power and how on earth can we be asked to trust and respect politicians? If they don't believe it and are just saying it because of the fear of a Twitter backlash then what hope can we have that they'll stand up for anything? If the rights of 51% of their voters aren't enough to motivate them then what is?

The Labour Party is now just a cult. Never settle for evidence based policy making when parroting a mantra will do.

RE being a Labour member-I have never filtered anything I have said. It just never occurred to me! We need a fuck of a lot LESS filtering and more truth

The best way to achieve that, though, is through letting go of party affiliations......Having grown up with a very politically astute Labour voting father, na d having spent many years engaged in various political struggles - aligned to left/liberal issues...I'm aware of how it becomes almost second nature to automatically adopt certain stances.......to make excuses for the events that don't conform......and to try to shoe-horn them into their correct shape or position.

RE being a Labour member-I have never filtered anything I have said. It just never occurred to me! We need a fuck of a lot LESS filtering and more truth.

I know from our perspective it's males who pose a threat by the way. But if they don't really pose a threat why only talk about them and not trans people in general?

But the truth is that I largely just feel liberated from loyalty to a party that's been taken over and destroyed by woke teenagers and lefty dude bros (and those in thrall to them)

I agree! It's liberating to be free of the constraints of party political loyalty...with having to filter everything you think or feel through a sieve of correct thinking. This applies to many issues, though, not just the trans issue/women's rights. It is all far too tribal.

If you start from the position that TWAW you are focusing on males and forgetting completely that there are females who are trans men. So males are the most important and the only ones worth talking about? Even if they believe in that shit, do none of them see what they are doing when they focus on TW?

I haven't listened to Lisa Nandy yet and will try to do so later. I am, however, currently listening to Women's Hour. They replayed an interview with Barbara Castle on the fight for equal pay. It's incredibly depressing to contrast her attitude with that of today's Labour women politicians who don't care that including men in the group called women means we will never be able to determine if there is equal pay between the sexes or not. The other thing that stood out for me was that the term gender was not used only sex.

It's very clear now it's not that they don't understand or know what they are doing. They are just so soaked in their warped values that they believe harming women and hating on women having rights is a virtuous thing to do

I don't disagree, but I think a lack of intellect is behind it too. Lisa Nandy has placed the poor, demonised transitioner in her constituency at the centre of both of her answers to this question in prime time slots. It's clear that this one struggling young teen with whom she has personal involvement has informed her view of the ENTIRE issue. She has made up her mind and closed it off. She actively doesn't want to hear anything that will challenge the opinion that she has set in stone. She is alight with virtuous certainty - she KNOWS she is right because she knows this person and is touched by their situation, and if all us bigots knew them too we would think the same as her.

That demonstrates a lack of ability to think, analyse, extrapolate, research, challenge, see the bigger picture and join dots.

What it also suggests to me is that, when she speaks about hate and discrimination, she has a particular type of woman in mind. She isn't thinking of women of different faiths, women with disabilities, women whose lives have been destroyed by violence, childhood sexual abuse or domestic abuse. Women like the ones Lucy McDonagh from the Deptford Project described, who face multiple disadvantages. I'd say the woman Lisa is picturing when she spits out accusations of hate is a middle class stereotype - the mythical 'can I speak to the manager' type so beloved by ageist wokescolds and misogynists.

Lack of intelligence. Lack of insight. Lack of any shred of leadership ability.

I was really hoping against hope that Keir Starmer might still show an ounce of intelligence and critical thinking but apparently not.

He also thinks that any bloke who fancies wandering round the Center Parcs Spa changing rooms while I’m naked in there next week should be able to rock up, announce he’s a woman and wander in at his leisure. Cheers Keir.

Can't WPUK demand a slot on the Today programme to respond?

No, it does exist You can sign it here, and your constituency labour party is a required field... so you can be expelled if you don't sign it, maybe...

docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd_wPyenUicSJgKv1YTknZ47gDGU4b_389zYbqH10TGSTRrpg/viewform