Nandy on R4

Boireannachlaidir you are well aware of what I'm saying and now I am leaving this thread to return to the real world

BuzzShitbagBobbly - the post you have reposted has nothing to do with what this thread seems to be about.

NorthernNic - I'm using standard terminology

I also think I must go as I appear to have landed on some other planet.

I saw some bloke on Newsnight saying 'a man is not a woman'/'a woman is not a man'. I thought he was a dangerous dinosaur

How did you know it was a "bloke"? What's dangerous about saying that? Why does that make you think he's a "dinosaur"?

Lets not derail a good political discussion for the wide eyed 'new' poster please.

Mastertomsmum seemed tohaveno questions on what being trans was last March. How odd she's forgotten it all now.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/baby_names/3531126-What-do-you-think-of-the-name-Rowan-For-a-girl

Mastertomsmum - Isn't it so confusing? What do you mean they identify as women? I thought they were women? If not then which bits are they identifying with?

Here you go, wide-eyed new poster. You should find this thread a helpful introduction.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Perhaps they should instead be asking what is a transwoman and go from there.

Maybe do some background reading on this section then? It's a bit like dropping into infant feeding and asking what this breastfeeding lark is all about then.

I'm new to this topic. What's the issue with trans women? Surely women support them as they are identifying as women.

I saw some bloke on Newsnight saying 'a man is not a woman'/'a woman is not a man'. I thought he was a dangerous dinosaur

Yup. These are the women who are supposed to represent us, these are apparently the best Labour can offer (not true, I now understand exactly why Yvette Cooper and others are standing well back and why Jess Phillips dropped out) and they are awful. I feel ashamed and let down and incandescently angry with the stupid, spineless, uncritical women being offered to me as Labour leaders. I don't feel quite so angry with Keir Starmer because he's a man and I wouldn't expect much from him.

This is so utterly contemptuous of Labour women. I'm booked to go to my Labour MPs surgery and make it clear that I'm out not just as a member but also as a supporter unless this nonsense is dropped. I urge everyone here to do likewise. And email and write to Nandy et al and make it clear where you stand. Burst their bubbles.

These people are so misogynistic that they lump all disobedient women into one amorphous mass.

I think there's two things going on here. The TRAs know perfectly well that WPUK is a very different organisation from the movements run by Venice, Posy, Julia and so on, and that WPUK is always polite and respectful, platforms trans people and so on. They know that, but they deliberately lie about it because they want other people to believe that WPUK is a horrid organisation that hates trans people. The one thing TRAs have demonstrated time and time again is their eagerness to tell outright, malicious lies about gender-critical feminists.

The second thing is that you have people like Nandy, Thornberry and the rest of the woke crowd who are too lazy to do their own investigating, so they just believe what the TRAs tell them. So if the TRAs tell them that WPUK, an organisation run by left-wing feminists with long histories of activism in the labour movement, hates trans people, then they'll go along with it.

And that, sisters, is the quality of the candidates aspiring to lead the major opposition party and one day the country. Reflect upon that and weep.

Thank you for watching it so I don't have to.

I am so with the Labour Party. I kept hoping there were little glimmers of light showing but there aren't.

Vic Derbyshire did, to her credit, ask them 'but what is a woman?' - but didn't push it further.

I think it's all very clear - under Labour, women will not be defined by their biological sex, as a legal category. They will do all the things Stonewall want them to, including get rid of the EA exemptions.

They will say they uphold single sex spaces, but since those spaces will be unable to exclude "any male who identifies as a woman" - these spaces will be meaningless.

'What is a woman? What are the main challenges faced by women today?'

I'd be interested to see how each of them answer that, and whether those answers focus the penis-having women (and not in the context of challenges to the other kind.) I wonder if any of them have given the slightest thought to actual women's issues?

I don't think my blood pressure can take that. And I'm sure Derbyshire simpering as always.

A feminist on Vic Derbyshire has just asked the about the TWAW thing, and about labour women only short lists.

RLB just said 'we have to disagree because TWAW and TMAM" and then started talking about homeless men. WTF??

RLB can't answer "what is a woman" - just starts waffling on about transwomen, and how "incredibly difficult" transitioning is.

Lisa Nandy agrees. And there's a real problem with women's organisations, and she will talk to and debate with anyone reasonably wantint a debate, but if you don't recognise trans people exist, there is no meaningful dialogue.

Keir - transpeople face incredible abuse etc. Political football blah blah.

YET AGAIN - the question was about WOMEN. The answers are all about TRANS.

Women are just nobodies to the Labour Party.

I don't think Labour have anything further to say to me.

Thank you! It is shocking that WPUK have denied any involvement and not daft (on other issues) labour activists are accusing them of being disingenuous.

This is so toxic. Labour will be in the wilderness for a very long time.

These people are so misogynistic that they lump all disobedient women into one amorphous mass.

Yes. It's not WPUK, it's Venice Allan's "We Need to Talk" meeting. I believe the one that ran just after TRAs punched Maria McLachlan to the ground at Speaker's Corner.

Correct on all counts.

This video is doing the rounds online as "proof" of WPUK's transphobia, even though WPUK say they can't see the video and have pointed people to all the videos of public events.

Not that there is anything wrong with Julia Long's speech, which I watched in person, but this has nothing to do with WPUK who I believe weren't founded until after Speakers Corner happened.

Why do you start from the position that TWAW?

Conclusions are where you finish, after examining facts and hearing from all sides.

Move over Tarquin fttimbimlimbim ole biscuitbarrel and Jethro Q Walrustitty, the New Silly Party is after your votes.

Some may disagree with me, but I don't think there's anything wrong with what Julia Long says in that video. She's demonstrating that "woman is not a costume" - that males cannot simply become women by putting on make up, nail varnish, women's clothing etc.

Does anyone know what meeting this is from?

Yes. It's not WPUK, it's Venice Allan's "We Need to Talk" meeting. I believe the one that ran just after TRAs punched Maria McLachlan to the ground at Speaker's Corner.

You can see the names of the originators if you click on the link within this tweet, and scroll to the bottom.

twitter.com/Labour_Trans/status/1226939313264394241

Eden Ladley is on there. Eden Ladley co-wrote the (now removed) "How to deal with TERFS" slideshow, and has links to Jess Bradley, Lily Madigan and (weirdly) Emma Healey who was an intern at MNHQ who published Mumsnetter's IP addresses on twitter.

I won't link to it all - but there are various threads on MN that can be searched for.