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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour Leadership Candidates on Newsnight

83 replies

MarSeeAh · 12/02/2020 23:21

Not one of them gives a toss about women’s rights!

Not one of them is prepared to say that biological reality is, well, reality.

For fuck’s sake!

OP posts:
IfNot · 13/02/2020 10:14

Sorry, ranting. I'm angrier than I thought I would be!

GladAllOver · 13/02/2020 10:13

That's very disappointing about Starmer.
Unfortunately one can only leave a Party once.

IfNot · 13/02/2020 10:13

Oh, and given some of the unbelievably awful things they are teaching children in schools, the end of the parental veto is pretty scary. They can bloody well arrest me if they think I am going to agree to my dc being taught that people can choose their sex, or that porn is fiiiiine.
The establishment has been captured by the likes of Peter Tatchell (of children can enjoy relations with adults fame) so fuck that, no thank you. As for "conversion" of LGB youth? Hello? WTF do they think transing kids is?!

ScrimshawTheSecond · 13/02/2020 10:10

Just as bad as the other one, really. Just doesn't mention WPUK or LGB Alliance by name, so it's just a soft focus diktat.

Basically, Starmer has just built himself a slightly less wonky fence to sit on, while still quietly throwing women under that bus.

IfNot · 13/02/2020 10:08

Yep, Kier Starmer is covering his arse that's all.
He is still pledging to back self ID and he still claims to not be able to tell the different between men and women.
Except for relationship purposes probably, eh Kier?
Oh, and he knows which sex to fuck over because he thinks we don't matter.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 13/02/2020 10:05

The text of Starmer's pledge. Odd that he's found a different one.

'Ten pledges to LGBT+ Labour members and the wider LGBT+ community:

  1. Fully inclusive LGBT+ Sex and Relationships Education for all children in the UK.
I will campaign for: greater training and support for teachers; buffer zones to protect children, parents and staff from protests; and the removal of any exemptions for non-council maintained schools and an end of the parental right to remove children from these classes.
  1. Trans rights and reforming the Gender Recognition Act.
I will campaign to reform the Gender Recognition Act to introduce a self-declaration process and for the introduction of legal recognition for non-binary gender identities. I believe that trans women are women, that trans men are men, and that non-binary gender identities are valid and should be respected.
  1. Tackling the rise in anti-LGBT+ hate crime.
I will campaign for a change in the law on anti-LGBT+ hate crimes to bring them in line with hate crimes based on race and faith, by making them aggravated offences.
  1. Healthcare system that supports the LGBT+ community.
I will campaign for the provision and funding needed for: the full rollout of free PrEP across the UK; IVF treatment for lesbians, bisexual women, trans men and non-binary people; the reduction of waiting times for trans people to access hormones and surgery; and specific LGBT+ mental health services.
  1. Supporting LGBT+ homeless people.
I will campaign to ensure all plans to tackle the homelessness and rough sleeping crisis in the UK have specific provision tailored to understanding the needs and issues unique to LGBT+ homeless people who make up a disproportionate number of the current homeless people in the UK.
  1. Ending Conversion Therapy.
I will campaign for a complete ban on the archaic practice of conversion therapy throughout the UK, which believes that LGBT+ people can be ‘cured’. This is a harmful and dangerous practice.
  1. LGBT+ rights globally.
I will campaign to reform the cruel and inhumane rules for LGBT+ people seeking asylum in the UK and will advocate for the appointment of an international envoy for LGBT+ rights.
  1. LGBT+ Leadership within Labour.
I commit to the implementation of a Leadership Programme for LGBT+ members as recommended in the democracy review, such as the Bernie Grant BAME & Jo Cox Women in Leadership Programmes to increase diverse LGBT+ representation. I will review why certain LGBT+ and intersectional minorities are underrepresented at all tiers of internal party democracy.
  1. Fully Independent Complaints process.
I will introduce a fully independent complaints process to tackle incidences of homophobia, biphobia, transphobia and all forms of discrimination within the Labour party.
  1. Keeping LGBT+ Labour at the heart of decision making. I fully commit to consulting LGBT+ Labour, as Labour’s official LGBT+ affiliate, when making political and policy decisions that directly affect the LGBT+ community.'
MaMaLa321 · 13/02/2020 10:00

all he's doing is making sure that he doesn't potentially get sued for libel. He IS a lawyer, after all. But the other document is just as bad for women.

UpperLowercaseSymbolNumber · 13/02/2020 09:57

It’s a small comfort Starmer has signed the barking pledge but a slightly less bad one. He is desperately trying to keep his head down so as not to get pillaged by TRAs.

I’m disappointed in him. I rejoined the party to vote for him but I think I will leave again. Assuming of course they don’t expel me first for wrongthink

RoyalCorgi · 13/02/2020 09:45

Why are Labour women always such fucking awful politicians??

Labour is an equal opportunities party. It has loads of really shit male politicians too. See Lloyd whatsisface on Politics Live yesterday for one example. There are many others.

Yesyesitsme · 13/02/2020 09:20

Why are Labour women always such fucking awful politicians?? Even when they think they are being canny they just come across as bumbling divs. Was Barbara Castle the last decent one?

I'm no fan of the current bunch, but there have plenty of good women politicians since Barbara Castle, whether or not you share their views. Yvette Cooper, Harriet Harman, Mo Mowlam, Tessa Jowell, Clare Short....

Floisme · 13/02/2020 09:17

Ha ha I didn't spot that!
He may be untrustworthy but at least he appears to be smart and untrustworthy.

MaMaLa321 · 13/02/2020 09:17

but it still includes supporting self-id

FleecyMoo · 13/02/2020 09:17

Something has been niggling at the back of my mind and I've just realised what it is - the Sixth Form common room! I feel as though I've been transported back there. The Labour party has regressed to the point that it has the sophisticated reasoning of your average 16 -18 year old who thinks they know everything despite having no life experience.

The way in which labour politicians stick together for safety and will follow the most gutless, incoherent, nonsensical ideas just because 'everyone else is doing it' saddens me beyond belief.

Please can a grown up come along and sort things out so that intelligent people, women and Jewish people (and some of us are all three!) have someone to vote for?

womanaf · 13/02/2020 09:15

Yes, that’s different pledges, nothing about WPUK there.

Yesyesitsme · 13/02/2020 09:13

Keir Starmer seems to be supporting a slightly different list of pledges: mobile.twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1227878854183792642

Floisme · 13/02/2020 09:10

Sorry that link doesn't work. Sure someone will be along with a screenshot soon.

Floisme · 13/02/2020 09:09

This is it I think. If not it's on his Twitter page.

Keir itter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1227878854183792642

MaMaLa321 · 13/02/2020 09:09

No!
I'm loving this , and finding it very exciting. Because I stopped being a Labour party member several years ago.
But it must feel truly terrible if you're Labour

Floisme · 13/02/2020 09:07

Sorry can't link but Starmer has now tweeted that he supports the pledge.

BovaryX · 13/02/2020 09:05

^Why are Labour women always such fucking awful politicians??
All Women's Shortlists. Though I'm aware that this is an unpopular opinion on MN^

I agree. There are some truly dire Labour women whose rapid ascent is matched by their profound mediocrity. The party is imploding under the weight of its own contradictions....

Tanith · 13/02/2020 09:05

My last hope is Starmer. Was he at least hedging his bets?

I think he has to, at this stage. So far as I can see, he's treading a very fine and difficult line and, so far, he's doing it well. He's showing his greater experience over the other candidates imo.

IfNot · 13/02/2020 09:01

No. That might explain why there are more of them, but not why they are so shit.
In one job I had they only interviewed women for a senior role, but the woman who got the job was fantastic. There are millions of brilliant women capable of being great MPs, they just don't ever seem to want be Labour Party MPs.
I wonder if the misogyny in the Party (I am a member) is so bad that only self hating idiots rise to the top.

MaMaLa321 · 13/02/2020 08:47

Why are Labour women always such fucking awful politicians??
All Women's Shortlists. Though I'm aware that this is an unpopular opinion on MN

IfNot · 13/02/2020 08:30

Agree Tanith I'm not leaving either, I'm going to remain and be a pain in my CLP's arse.

IfNot · 13/02/2020 08:28

Why are Labour women always such fucking awful politicians?? Even when they think they are being canny they just come across as bumbling divs. Was Barbara Castle the last decent one?
I'm no fan of the Tories but at least they seem to produce formidable female MPS, even if they are loathsome they are not laughable like this bunch of wibbling airheads.