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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya's case, #expelme, my case against Girlguiding and a Court of Precedent!

39 replies

KatieAlcock · 12/02/2020 11:40

Bear with me as I'm very much not a legal expert and I really hope that my solicitor isn't going to tell me I've written something wrong! This is an update on my case against Girlguiding for expelling me (see what I did there) for my beliefs that men and boys cannot change into girls and women.

Wheels turning slowly in the background

I've been waiting... and waiting... and waiting to be able to give you all an update. I can finally tell you something but it's still not a finished story!

Maya Forstater, who has been appealing her dismissal on grounds of her gender critical beliefs, lost her case against her employers but has now lodged an appeal (Mumnet link rather than her funding link for safety's sake: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3805218-Maya-appealing )

You probably don't know the ins and outs but the Employment Tribunal is not what's called a "binding precedent" - another court can independently come to a different decision. So, though this decision is indicative, it's not binding over the court my case would be held in.

After Maya lost her case, Girlguiding told us that since my belief case is so similar to hers, we should withdraw my case. We declined to do so; because Maya is appealing her appeal will be held in a higher court than my case. This means that if Maya's appeal is successful, it is binding to the court that my case would be held in.

Confused? I am as well but Maya's appeal is really hopeful both for her obviously, but also for my case.

This is going to be a long haul, though. Maya's appeal is some way off and we can't make any firm plans for my case till after that. Please share, Tweet, anything you can think of - please do use the hashtag #expelme

I have also asked again if Girlguiding will allow me to accompany my daughter to meetings, outings and sleepovers, and they have again not made any concession. This is massively disappointing to me and to my daughter, and is obviously extremely hard to explain to her and to her friends and their parents.

As an aside it was SO GOOD to meet so many of you at the WPUK meeting, including some current and former Guiding people.

OP posts:
Joisanofthedales · 12/02/2020 12:45

Stay strong, we are all rooting for you. Flowers

happydappy2 · 12/02/2020 12:38

Katie thanks for the update. I don’t understand How GGs insurance policy is valid if they claim they are single sex, yet allow XY people to go on sleepovers with girls. Heaven forbid a girl gets pregnant.....how would GG cope with the fallout? As pp suggested, have you written to Her Maj?

refusetobeasheep · 12/02/2020 12:35

Thanks Katie, have dug.

KatieAlcock · 12/02/2020 12:32

Thank you Grinitch

Jessica their lawyers are VERY expensive. Much bigger guns than in Maya's ET.

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GrinitchSpinach · 12/02/2020 12:29

Everything crossed for you, Katie!

Btw, your article "Young children, reality, sex and gender" is one of the BEST resources I've read in this whole debate. I keep referring back to it.

For anyone who missed it the first time:
medium.com/@katieja/young-children-reality-sex-and-gender-3421f4f165f1

JessicaLangoustine · 12/02/2020 12:23

Sorry, Good luck Katie!

JessicaLangoustine · 12/02/2020 12:22

Have just worked out our annual census bill. Pretty fucked off that our money is being used so that GirlGuiding UK can persecute its volunteers through the legal system. Good luck, Helen, GC leaders stand in solidarity with you.

NonnyMouse1337 · 12/02/2020 12:11

I'm in awe of women like yourself and Maya in not backing down from these crucial cases. I can only imagine the stress and financial toll it takes to endure such long, protracted cases, all the preparations, the appeals etc. You have my support and well-wishers and I contribute when I can.
As you are all too aware, there's so much at stake and the implications would be huge especially as the cases keeping climbing up the courts.
We really are in your debt for taking this on.

Redshoeblueshoe · 12/02/2020 12:05

I'm sure this has been suggested to you before, but have you written to Her Maj ?
No stone left unturned, and all that.
Good luck, your OP did make sense

KatieAlcock · 12/02/2020 11:54

I could be wrong, but I’m wondering, by the fact that they’re trying to talk you out of defending yourself, that they are getting a bit worried.
Or it could just be cash for lawyers... I'm trying not to read too much into it!

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KatieAlcock · 12/02/2020 11:52

Is it a charity? Just wondered if it has changed it’s articles to state that it is now for girls and boys?

It is (the patron is HM Queen) and it has not.

My previous update (that's Her Maj in her uniform) is here.

medium.com/4th-wave-feminism/a-year-ago-i-was-removed-from-girlguiding-d72f0e9f9692

(Oooooh look it's been categorised under 4th Wave Feminism! I didn't know that!)

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SauceForTheGander · 12/02/2020 11:48

Good luck and well done for keeping on.

LizziesTwin · 12/02/2020 11:47

Thank you for the update. I’m sorry that GirlGuiding are still ignoring the Equalities Act and not acting in the interests of the girls they were set up to help. Is it a charity? Just wondered if it has changed it’s articles to state that it is now for girls and boys?

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 12/02/2020 11:45

Well done for not letting them bully you into backing down. I could be wrong, but I’m wondering, by the fact that they’re trying to talk you out of defending yourself, that they are getting a bit worried. Between Maya, Glinner and you, things are being brought to the public attention that have been previously hidden. They don’t like that.

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