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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Angela Rayner says you can only be a Labour member if you believe TWAW

358 replies

jadefinch · 11/02/2020 13:36

And has effectively also said that Women's Place and the LGB Alliance (essentially groups for women, gays and lesbians to meet and discuss women's, gay and lesbian issues) are hate groups and them meeting are hate crimes

Angela Rayner says you can only be a Labour member if you believe TWAW
Angela Rayner says you can only be a Labour member if you believe TWAW
Angela Rayner says you can only be a Labour member if you believe TWAW
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R0wantrees · 13/02/2020 13:58

Burnham and some other Labour mayors, inc. Sadiq Khan and that horrible Liverpool misogynist, co-signed a letter to the government urging them to implement self-ID, I think.

August 2018
OP RadicalFern wrote,
"Andy Burnham, Mayr of Greater Manchester, has hired an advisor, Carl Austin-Behan, to help him think of what to do about "the row" over All-Women shortlists. Austin-Behan's solution? Party members who campaign against trans women being fully accepted as women should no longer be allowed in the party."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3329447-People-Who-Oppose-Trans-Rights-Have-No-Place-In-Labour-Says-The-First-LGBT-Mayoral-Adviser

littlbrowndog · 13/02/2020 13:28

Identify as what you want Alun.

Then do a pledge and make everyone sign it

Then expell the ones that won’t. After very extensive questioning

That’s how it works in labour

AlunWynsKnee · 13/02/2020 13:24

Labour have emailed me inviting me to vote for a rep on the NEC if I identify as BAME.
It's very tempting to do so as a Caucasian ex Party member. Presumably I can identify as a party member too.

Clymene · 13/02/2020 12:26

Here you go Errol:
"Given recent events I have updated my post on the state of the LP leadership contest.

The absolute state of the Labour Party leadership contest in relation to women's rights! Shocking. Worse than that even.

Long Bailey and Thornberry have turned off women on Mumsnet, the place where the most earnest and woke politicians go to die. Long Bailey with her virtue signalling, thought terminating cliche "no debate" and her insistence that every question about women must be turned into an issue about transwomen lost her sympathy. Her response implies women are irritating and neurotic for raising concerns. "No debate" from an elected politician? Does she really think that is reassuring from someone who is elected to a place to debate? She said to a question I asked in Camarthen that she also supports single sex exemptions for women which was a clear commitment in the Labour Party manifesto after all, however the "no debate" two word slogan hardly reassures that she understands what the exemptions are for and how they might be applied in such an intolerant climate. "No debate" means no vote from me. Whilst I thought self ID alongside single sex exemptions might be a compromise I could live with during the General Election, it is not now. As someone said, it is speaking out of both sides of the mouth.

Thornberry is worse. She could have made a grab for women's votes by subtly signalling an understanding of our concerns and acknowledging a respectful debate needs to take place. Instead on Mumsnet she banged on about the awfulness of prison for transwomen. Now, I'm sure prison is awful for transwomen, but I assume they're there for a reason and that reason might make them very inappropriate for a move to the female prison estate. It's not an acceptable response to say they must be in women's prison, which are full of very vulnerable women, and are awful places for women too, the vast majority of whom should not be there and are suffering after effects of PTSD. Turning questions about women's rights into a discussion about transwomen (and interestingly it is transwomen not transmen that seems to be the concern of most of the leadership comrades) is a speciality of the Labour front bench. It's almost as if they've lost sight of women entirely turning every question about us into a discussion about the rights of another group.

Starmer is sitting on the fence to such an extent that he will get splinters in his arse. So many women I know will vote for him because he hasn't said the catechism "transwomen are women". The bar is set very bloody low. This is positively fabulous after the shocking volt face of Clive Lewis, who having previously been clear he thought transwomen are male ( a biological fact after all), made a full apology and uttered the required mantra TWAW falling dutifully into line. This didn't help him though as I assume a lot of people spotted his cowardice and he hasn't made the ballot paper.

Nandy is proving that she is part of the metropolitan intelligentsia no matter her careful positioning trying to indicate working class sensibility on all other matters. Her total lack of concern that she might be alienating herself from her constituency also speaks to how she has paid no attention, none at all, to what is happening in the membership of the party and the thousands of women in the membership who do not agree with her. She believes TWAW, empatically, that we should not be ashamed to say it, that a 14 year old in her constituency has been waiting too long to transition (thus supporting the medicalising of children) and she equates this liberal, individualist movement with the movement for race equality in the 70's positioning all feminists raising concerns on the wrong side of history.

Raynor has promoted a horrible TRA on her timeline even during a period of complaints raised about their sexist, harassing behaviour. Her office staff member was on an aggressive, intimidating demonstration harassing our Woman's Place meeting in Brighton without any censure from her. She has now signed up to a slanderous pledge naming WPUK a hate group. Just in case you missed her good intentions her Twitter account is festooned in rainbows and cartoon unicorns. You see being a socialist is nolonger about being a fierce intellectual but about embracing an infantlilising ideology.

The shadow women and equality spokesperson Dawn Butler has already said she will not stand by the LP Manifesto to protect women's rights even during the GE campaign period. Her brand of politics is corporate self help and glittery awards sponsored by global capitalist giant Amazon.

Burgon gets support from women because his campaign manager is Laura Pidcock who knows exactly what we are going on about but in reality I doubt that he personally has paid much attention. He needs to start doing his homework rather than riding on Laura's coat tails. Only Laura has made it clear that the Labour Party should be tolerant of debate, recently coming in for extreme criticism for suggesting women should not be 'no platformed', an extremist tactic when applied to democratic discourse, that looks like blatant misogyny when used by the Party against women members. For sure the party is missing Laura's principled intelligence and feminist back bone in parliament and I hope she's back there soon. The loss of her seat is a tragedy on top of the awful defeat over which we must all properly consider the real significance. No sign of that amongst our leadership contenders.

Why does it matter? During this pantomime the Tory's have stood up in parliament and said the government will protect women's rights. The abysmal response from our leadership team? The sight of Dawn Butler vigorously shaking her head from side to side mouthing no. No? The LP don't want women's rights? It is not lost on our opponents that there's advantage to be had here. They of course will not support women's rights in entirety, they will refuse the necessary funding for one thing, but I think they understand better than we do that politics is about the war of position above all else.

Lord Ashcroft has recently reported on why Labour lost the election. It is an interesting read; "Partly because of this, some also felt the party had come to embody an excessively politically correct or “woke” culture, which would be intolerant of what they considered sensible, mainstream views: “They’re classing themselves as liberals but won’t let anyone else have a different viewpoint;” “You’re a bigot if you don’t agree there are 125 different genders;” “They can be woke, but they can also be vitriolic. I’ve heard them say things to Conservatives where I thought, ‘well, that wasn’t very nice’;” “The other day Jeremy Corbyn even did his pronouns! He said, ‘my name’s Jeremy Corbyn and my pronouns are ‘him’ and ‘his.’ You can Google it!” Quite!

The disdain of our politicians for women's concerns is emblematic of a lack of care or consideration for working class communities in general. It's almost as if women need to come along and say "Raise your game. Women are more than 50% of the population and we do not have to vote for any of you" as was just demonstrated. "

Ruth Serwotka

littlbrowndog · 13/02/2020 12:17

I can see it. Am not on Facebook.

It’s a great piece

bellinisurge · 13/02/2020 12:08

Maybe they should start giving a shit about the catastrophic consequences of men defining women. Trigger warning on this article about a woman who was told women can't have pets. Not in this country but part of women's "lived experiences ". Afghan sports coach says she will flee after dog shot dead www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-51449514

Justhadathought · 13/02/2020 11:07

Quite right. Labour is a hate group, riddled with misogyny and anti-semitism. You can add class hatred to that to - both towards the rich and the problematically unwoke working classes

Yes, that is the irony......with Owen Jones, for example, demanding expulsion and scorn for anyone who dares to voice a different view ( no matter how well considered, articulated and formulated) and claiming it is they who are intolerant and bigoted.

We are in a post truth world; where everyone makes up their own. The politics if identity and individualism gone insane.

GCAcademic · 13/02/2020 10:55

The FB piece says that one of Raynor's staff was part of that group of protestors banging on the windows and screaming and throwing liquid at women at the Brighton WPUK meeting.

MaMaLa321 · 13/02/2020 09:52

not sure - I'm on FB, so perhaps that's why I got it

ErrolTheDragon · 13/02/2020 09:46

I couldn't see that FB piece - is it still there or only available to FB members?

MaMaLa321 · 13/02/2020 09:32

thanks for the Ruth Serwotka fb piece - I've shared it on my timeline

ChattyLion · 13/02/2020 09:25

It’s very concerning to think where the faithful will be asked to commit their pledge to next. Because we all know validation and solidarity is never enough- loyalty must be constantly proven and re-proven.

TimeLady · 13/02/2020 09:12

Ruth Serwotka's take on the leadership contest:

www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=783031588871168&id=100014930011975

Floisme · 13/02/2020 08:32

If you start from the position that the moon is made of green cheese you still can't eat it on a cracker.
Thanks for making me laugh - I need it.

Do Long Bailey, Nandy and Thornberry not realise that they've just made themselves hostages to the TWA lobby? If one of them wins they will have their feet held in the fire until they've carried out that pledge.
I absolutely cannot wait to see one of those pipsqueaks try and expel Ruth Serwotka.

Al1Langdownthecleghole · 13/02/2020 08:22

Just saw this on Twitter.

And the cockless women carry on doing the drudge work.

Angela Rayner says you can only be a Labour member if you believe TWAW
GCAcademic · 13/02/2020 08:16

Quite right. Labour is a hate group, riddled with misogyny and anti-semitism. You can add class hatred to that to - both towards the rich and the problematically unwoke working classes.

Lordfrontpaw · 13/02/2020 08:11

Their group is the hate group actually. That’s where I’ve seen the attacks and threats coming from.

‘I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more’

Tootsweets23 · 13/02/2020 08:09

I am so beyond angry I might have an aneurysm. How dare these people? How DARE they call women a hate group? How dare they slander us for wanting to protect our existing legal rights? How dare they use such moronic comparisons such as violent lesbians and Eritrean soldiers (WTF?!) and expect to be taken seriously?

The Labour Party is dead. The one positive is that this guarantees no self ID as the tories won't touch it with a ten foot barge pole. Considering the problems the SNP has they'd be wise to quietly drop it too.

Lordfrontpaw · 13/02/2020 07:47

I have tweeted (again) my (Labour) MP who is curiously avoiding the issue.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 13/02/2020 07:45

If you start from the position that the moon is made of green cheese you still can't eat it on a cracker.

Lordfrontpaw · 13/02/2020 07:35

DS rushes through and gave me a hug - even DH took over making breakfast and gave me a kiss. I was yelling at the radio. I confess I didn’t hear it all because I was having a bit of a rage.

That person has lost the plot. She is no friend to women. The Labour Party is dead.

theflushedzebra · 13/02/2020 07:34

Lisa Nandy: "If you start from the position that TWAW, a I do...."

Twitter: 'If you start from the position' that 0=1 you can say and do anything.

Quite.

theflushedzebra · 13/02/2020 07:30

Lisa Nandy just talked about the Pledge on R4 Today, and has touted the exact same arguments as Jo Swinson. Except she used "race" as the comparison, instead of "violent lesbians" Hmm

She started talking about Eritrean boy soldiers Confused

theflushedzebra · 13/02/2020 07:23

"boi clit"

Well I think I've heard everything now.

I just had a quick look at that reddit page, and they're talking about the photos doing the rounds on twitter of a transman and a transwoman - and trying to make out that we're mad to think lesbians will be attracted to the transman & vv.

It's crazy - a couple of well-posed photos hiding the mastectomy scars, for example, aren't going to mean that 1) those people pass well irl, 2) that this person is actually male, and 3) certainly isn't going to mean that a gay man will want to have sex with a transman with a vagina. Or a "boi clit" - who do they think they're kidding? This is absolutely homophobia.

TimeLady · 13/02/2020 04:20

James Kirkup has a comment piece in The Times

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/af9d1948-4dd6-11ea-92ed-35f8fca55a87?shareToken=c4dda3f640b770d984729fdd6304c6fc

There is a serious debate to be had about sex and gender. Leadership on this issue means acknowledging complexity and removing fuel from the fires that engulf it. In pursuit of her party’s leadership, Long Bailey instead chose to pour petrol on the flames

Thank you, James.

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