"Review ordered into rules on child gender transition"

What needs outed is how much the charities are funded by pharmaceutical companies.
WPATH has been accused of conflicts of interest by receiving income linked with its guidelines or of working at universities or clinics that received funds from advocacy groups or drugs companies that favour certain treatments or receive grants and publish research on transgender care

Walter Bouman, president-elect of WPATH and a doctor at the Nottingham Centre for Transgender Health, confirmed that they were funded by anonymous donations, but denied conflicts of interests in the 2012 guidelines. However, he said that the new version would include a conflict of interest register.

I'm not sure what rules cover a 'conflict of interest register' - I hope it is naming and explicit.

JFC, the messaged sent to Charlie by the older AGP person she was in a relationship with. Those messages demonstrate exactly why it's a terrible idea for society to encourage or tolerate relationships between adults and teenagers. The control and abuse is just coming off everything said in waves. I physically backed away from the computer without even realizing I was doing it just reading that shit. But the thing is, I'm an adult, and was brought up with strong boundaries and supportive parents. For a vulnerable kid who's being targeted by a person like that? She didn't stand a chance.

The treatment of GNC girls by older GNC males is a fucking scandal, and I can only hope that if it ever breaks to the public they'll respond with more empathy than they usually do when girls are groomed and abused by older males. I've heard stuff like that from pretty much every GNC girl or woman involved with the trans community who I've ever known well enough for them to trust me enough to talk about it. Charlie is not an outlier, she's the tip of a massive and very alarming iceberg.

(Awaits screeches of outrage and attempts to report. We are all LangCleg.)

Thanks for the Times link. Very pleased to see Keira Bell’s case supported by the dr who points out the flaws in the questionable-sounding WPATH guidelines, that are relied on by the NHS as justification for offering medical and surgical interventions to distressed kids.

Also yes agree it is highly concerning about the very worrying reasons why some adults would really want there to be a cohort of permanently’child-bodied’ adults created. There’s been posts on this point before, but when I tried to find mine to post thread links, I couldn’t find them, so I can only assume this was on threads that have since been deleted.

The evidence is powerful that the political lobby is rich, hugely influential and has the establishment jumping on command. If clinicians were supported by that lobby - and Mermaids and Stonewall, who have Children in Need and Comic Relief et al throwing money where they say as well as their own resources - in having other options to offer those options would be there.

This lobby can't simultaneously have the power to force massive breach of policy, removal of safeguarding that previously was untouchable, and the removal of sex based rights, plus apparently control of the entire bloody government particularly the scots one, and also not be able to get other options in place for a relatively small number of the population.

Those options don't exist because they are not wanted to exist, extensive action has been taken to prevent clinicians even mentioning the possibility of them, and those options have been named 'conversion therapy'.

One of the things which is striking is the capture of officially recognised organisations by bodies which have no official standing and are entirely unregulated.

Part of this is because professionals have little else to offer in the way of guidelines and treatment for gender dysphoria. Clinicians have highly distressed patients and don’t have other options to offer or sources to consult with.

I can't find it right now but what the interview brought up for me, and what looms large over the transition review, is the issue of the existence of what Sheila Jeffreys describes as sex castes. To cut to the nub of it, startlingly, trans men tend to be relegated to the lowest position of the sex castes in some settings and trans women are the apex of the hierarchy.

GenderTrender had the quotations I relied upon but, of course, that blog's long since been closed down by Wordpress.

I know! It sounds like another situation of grooming by an older agp male for their own kicks. Just as Ben experienced. Just awful.

I'm drafting a letter (another one) to my MP at the moment, pointing out that everything, every single thing that I warned him two years ago was heading fast down the track has now happened, plus worse for women and children

I've been ignored by 2 mps now. Ignored by the nspcc. Black listed by girl guides. It's impossible to get anyone to listen. This review will show nothing

Bloody hell, poor Charlie! I already thought she'd been put through hell, but had no idea she went through it all in that context too.

Over and over again, women have said 'but the logical consequences will be....' and been variously told they're silly/ bigoted/ ignored/ patronised/ threatened. I'm drafting a letter (another one) to my MP at the moment, pointing out that everything, every single thing that I warned him two years ago was heading fast down the track has now happened, plus worse for women and children. While twits like him stand around muttering 'well it's complicated'.

No. Child safeguarding isn't fucking complicated.

Just hope to God this isn't another case of 'review' meaning 'get Stonewall and Mermaids to write something'. Because if they chicken out of addressing this properly now, they will be forced do it sooner or later, and it will make them look even more culpable and compromised than they already are.

I cant think of any other senario where people would so opnly dismiss red flags.

No one would kick lesbians out of a talk for asking whether kids should be in nightclubs having money thrown at them if it didbt have the gender subject attached.

I'm.sure I read on here recently that groupies for the disabled have a large age range 12-25 or something to account for mental development or lack of in some mentally disabled individuals but that lgbt groups/activities use similar age ranges but obviously theres a massive power difference and people should be questioning it more but they dont.

@ArranUpsideDown - ive only watched half of the video you linked to, but hearing about the dynamics within the trans community is fascinating.

Women outside of the trans-clique are told to shut up by men who hold the privilege, transmen inside the clique are told to shut up by transwomen because allegedly now they're the privileged ones...

Same shit, different pronouns.

Coming back to this...

One of the GIDS whistleblowers also suspected that one of their cases was a paedophile parent encouraging transition. The creation of young adults of legal age of consent but with childlike bodies is a horrifying facet

Tweet by Charlie Evans today:

twitter.com/charlie_sci/status/1226704893848825856?s=21

Criticism of WPATH and contrast with NICE is interesting.

One of the things which is striking is the capture of officially recognised organisations by bodies which have no official standing and are entirely unregulated.

When the NHS follows the lead of an unregulated organisation such as WPATH, the Scottish Government cites Yogyakarta as 'international best practice', and organisations are falling over themselves for Stonewall's approval, it's obvious that government bodies which should be carefully checking where their information comes from have been captured by what are effectively lobby groups.

Thomasin describes being coached by the online trans community in how to answer certain questions at the clinics.

What I find chilling from Thomasin's account is that her experiences of GIDS is that "if you ask for it, you get it."

Clinicians didn't seem 100% sure about her and yet as she was persistent, she was given the pathway. When moving onto the adult services, there appeared to be much less gatekeeping.

It strikes me that clinicians increasingly aren't able to say no. And yet they certainly used to as a child I taught who was seen by GIDs was helped to see that he was GNC and happy with his body, possibly gay.

Note that Ben says that if she'd heard of the term safeguarding when growing up, it would have helped her enormously.

(I'm not sure if it's in this interview or the one with Thomasin who is a British lesbian who was on the cusp of beginning hormones and surgery via GIDs clinics before realising the harm of the ideology she'd been led down.)

And then lo and behold the MAP explosion.

Again, the GNC interview where they discuss GNC's surprise that nobody ever intervened as an under-age teen and a much older person engaged in sexualised talk on Twitter and then 'obviously disappeared into their DMs for more.'

GNC Ben's Boyce interview about coercion in the TG community

That was horrendous. That's not an adverse comment on either of them but wholly my reaction to the information that was revealed. I've been uneasy about the narrative about the primacy of consent in BDSM/kink since reading a dissenting account about adults. GNC's experience as a teenager only served to increase that manyfold.

GNC's realisation that the trans women in their groups claimed hierarchy in the pyramid of oppression and were constantly telling GNC and trans boys to listen from their 'position of privilege'. Remarkable.

Kudos to GNC as an interviewee - so clear. And I was moved by the realisation that their dysphoria could never be resolved by medical or surgical intervention.

Criticism of WPATH and contrast with NICE is interesting. I think the UK should develop its own guidelines a collaboration with the RCPCH, BPS, RCPSYCH and NICE.

One of the GIDS whistleblowers also suspected that one of their cases was a paedophile parent encouraging transition. The creation of young adults of legal age of consent but with childlike bodies is a horrifying facet

Unfortunately this is another in the ever increasing list of what " never happens"

I dread to think how many posters we have lost or who has been booted off twitter for saying it. Just like those who warned that paedos will start showing their faces. And then lo and behold the MAP explosion.

I still think they find it preferable to admitting women were right though. That's how far they will go .

This is when I miss Lang the most.

One of the GIDS whistleblowers also suspected that one of their cases was a paedophile parent encouraging transition.

Yes that was what absolutely shook me to the core. With GNC Ben's Boyce interview about coercion in the TG community and the Challenor case, I don't doubt that this is an issue.

I'm with stealthpolarbear too.

I had seen this on twitter as a theory - not necessarily parental coercion but creepy guys.

Oh fuck that's a new one. But you're absolutely right, some men are attracted to pre pubescent children. And here's a way to keep them that way

Standwithyou is right. One of the GIDS whistleblowers also suspected that one of their cases was a paedophile parent encouraging transition. The creation of young adults of legal age of consent but with childlike bodies is a horrifying facet.