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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Menstruators and people who have periods

155 replies

HuckfromScandal · 09/02/2020 12:19

Well, this has enraged me, and I am wondering if I am being unreasonable?

Audible has a sale on, and I was looking to see if there was anything worth buying, and the book “period power” was listed.
The blurb has left me enraged, and I wouldn’t now buy it even if I really was interested. (Aware I am cutting off my nose). Is it just me???

Menstruators and people who have periods
OP posts:
R0wantrees · 10/02/2020 12:57

The testimony of young women who previously identified as 'transmen' is very important. Language which is presumed to be positive & 'inclusive' can have a significantly detrimental effect on young people who are impacted by distress/trauma by reinforcing dissociation.

Feminist Current article, 'Detransitioners are living proof the practices surrounding ‘trans kids’ need be questioned
Detransitioners are living proof that the practices surrounding “trans youth” need be questioned, yet their experiences are too often ignored.'

JANUARY 9, 2020 by LIV BRIDGE
(extract)
"It is worth noting the bravery that young women — all between the ages of 19 and 29 — exhibited as they recalled their most intimate surgeries and brutal insecurities. Later, on Twitter, Evans disclosed that, of the seven women on the panel, there were five mastectomies, two hysterectomies, two oophorectomies (the removal of ovaries), and 20 years of testosterone combined.

So, why have so many young women been compelled to undergo such brutal surgeries?

One detransitioner, who goes by the name “Satan Herself” on Twitter, said that transitioning was a way to evade lesbophobia and her “reality as a homosexual woman.” Living as a “transman” for five years, she had never even considered the possibility she harboured internalized homophobia, as she was so supportive of LGBT rights. Yet she knew no lesbians and was starved of representation of masculine women. She said she couldn’t envision growing up into an adult lesbian woman, and immersed herself in transgender theory, which seemed the ideal way to “fix herself.”

Another detransitioner, Ellie, said that, at 15 years old, she too couldn’t picture herself as a homosexual adult female, so began her lengthy four-year transition journey one year later, with a mastectomy.

Thomasin began identifying between “male and various non-binary identities” at 14 years old, only desisting from treatment in May. She said social media and the online world functioned as a kind of escape route, especially since she saw no lesbian positivity or representation online or in real life.

Nele, who identified as trans for two years, argued that people aren’t just “born transgender for a magical reason,” but that it is “put on you by society.” She claimed that the contemporary trans movement masquerades as progressive while “reinforcing gender stereotypes” — a position shared by Bell, who said accepting the concept of gender identity without criticism can legitimize “a form of caricatured gender stereotypes.” Bell feels the outcome of trans ideology is a “movement that actually acts against the support of lesbian and gay people.”

Many also explained that they had pre-existing body issues, some manifesting in life-threatening eating disorders, alongside gender dysphoria.

Despite almost dying from anorexia, “Satan Herself” said she never linked hating her female body to her eating disorder or gender dysphoria. She never connected the dots between her fear of living as a female and her fear of living at a normal weight, both of which caused her to be dismissive of her health.

“I often wonder how nobody realized that? No therapist I saw; no doctor I talked to about getting surgery; no one in my personal life,” she said to a tear-choked room. “I just wish someone would have been there to tell me not to get castrated at 21…" (continues)
www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

SapphosRock · 10/02/2020 12:56

I see it similar to using the word 'partner' instead of 'husband' or 'wife'.

If the context is addressing a number of people in relationships with other people then referring to 'partners' is fine by me and doesn't erase the meaning of the words 'husband' or 'wife' from those who are married.

Appreciate that menstruating is a bodily function and therefore more jarring than partner but essentially it's similar.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 10/02/2020 12:46

Yes i can see what you’re saying sapphos

Im not 100% sure that everyone is on board with just using the word women...seems to be that some people would be happy with ‘women and...(insert suitable phrase)

And the danger seems to be that while some people would be happy to have phrases that include the word women AND...there appears to be moves towards getting rid of the word women

So in the case of a leaflet for smears it was referring to people with a cervix...when it came to a leaflet about prostate cancer it was men

SapphosRock · 10/02/2020 12:36

Yeah I see your point. I guess I am coming from an angle that trans men do exist and they do menstruate so I don't mind calling them a menstruator rather than insisting they must be called women.

Being inclusive doesn't lead to erasure.

In any context that doesn't include trans men then the correct word is obviously woman.

Same as I wouldn't mind calling a trans man who had a child a pregnant person or a chest feeder. It doesn't stop women being pregnant women and breast feeders.

Binterested · 10/02/2020 12:32

Things that don’t matter? Like the name of my sex class? Like the reason for my monthly bleed? Like the biological status of half the world?

Do give over. Women are not foolish children so we don’t need your Aesop’s fable analogy.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 10/02/2020 12:26

And yeah ive read aesops fables Grin

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 10/02/2020 12:25

Im absolutely positive

Woman have been told for decades that whatever they are concentrating on at that time isn’t important in the big scheme of things and that it will damage womens causes

Women should be allowed to complain about whatever they want to...people will listen, or they won’t

Its fuck all to do with what you complain about

And its the drip drip drip that cause massive issues

SapphosRock · 10/02/2020 12:19

Not so sure Rufus have you ever read the boy who cried wolf?

Crying outrage about things that really don't matter could cause many to switch off from the other important concerns feminists have.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2020 12:04

Some have been through menopause, others are on medication, there are many reasons why a woman may not menstruate.

From the brief part I heard, the book may be relevant to some of those women - making the term 'menstruators' all the more inappropriate.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 10/02/2020 11:33

It will stop people taking notice of the problems that are genuinely affecting women and girls

So some women being vocal about their anger at being called menstruaters means that people won’t take any notice of FGM or sexism or anything...

I honestly don’t think it works like that

SapphosRock · 10/02/2020 11:32

Going back to the OP, using the term 'all women' would not be correct or relevant to the book blurb as not all women menstruate. Some have been through menopause, others are on medication, there are many reasons why a woman may not menstruate.

I have no issue with a book written specifically about menstruation, for people who menstruate referring to 'menstruators'.

It's not like there's a suggestion of referring to women as menstruators in every day life.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2020 11:25

I do recommend listening to the audible sample on the amazon page though, just for the explanation of the cause of women's rage. It's quite on point to this discussion, in a way. (Clue - she doesn't attribute it to hormones).

HuckfromScandal · 10/02/2020 11:20

I don't feel so alone in my anger about this now.

It's not a "hill to die on" but I feel that women's rights are being walked back in a slow and methodical - death by 1000 cuts type of way!
If we cannot talk about our bodies and use the terms that we want to to describe them, what is next?

I have decided not to bother getting the book, given some of the comments by other mumsnetters, I also recently returned "The bad feminist" as it's referencing to me as "CIS" was a step too far for me.

OP posts:
TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 10/02/2020 10:47

It will stop people taking notice of the problems that are genuinely affecting women and girls.

Like periods, and all the issues that can go with them? About how we don't talk about them enough, so women and girls don't know what's normal? About how issues are dismissed by doctors for years as 'just stuff women and girls have to deal with? Those sorts of real issues?

Winesalot · 10/02/2020 10:37

their sex that should be.

Justhadathought · 10/02/2020 10:36

Basically nothing to do with males at all. So absolutely no misogyny

Misogyny is contempt. It is pretty contemptuous towards women to forbid them from using natural and universally accepted words for their own state or being.

Winesalot · 10/02/2020 10:34

To me, to call someone a menstruator is dehumanizing. Why do you feel that reducing a women to a biological process is ok in any way shape or form?

If we are talking about a male reproductive process shall we call them ejaculators as opposed to ‘men’ .

This language is alienating to many who do not have any illusions about sex..... or is that the plan?

Justhadathought · 10/02/2020 10:32

To all the females' also works for a talk about periods Frogs, so no need for the all the pretend outrage

Who does it work for? I can assure you it is not pretend......

Justhadathought · 10/02/2020 10:31

How does it manage to stop women talking about their bodies? You can still do that confuse

Are you really so unimaginative that you can't conceive of a situation where a group of girls are together discussing their periods or their bodies, but are preventing from using the words 'women' or 'girls' because a trans boy is present?

The definition of colonisation:

noun
noun: colonisation
1.the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people

2. the action of appropriating a place or domain for one's own use

Binterested · 10/02/2020 09:55

Naming women as women. Yes I will die on that hill.

See also: not lying.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2020 09:20

I don't think anyone is dying on this hill, and that comes over as whataboutery.Hmm

But, if you want to go there... some of the outrageous things which happen to women around the world, are exactly down to menstruation being mystified and stigmatised, of women being shunned and excluded when they're menstruating. In a world where this didn't happen, maybe categorising women by this particular bodily function wouldn't be quite so bad (though referring to people by a function always tends to be dehumanising) but we're not there yet.

The people who wrote this blurb are not being remotely kind and inclusive to women from cultures in which these attitudes exist. They also seem to be misrepresenting the tenor of the book itself to the point where the OP might be dissuaded from buying it - and otoh others might be uncomfortable with its actual content if they were expecting the word woman to have been eschewed.

SapphosRock · 10/02/2020 08:58

It's a strange hill to choose to die on when there are plenty of outrageous things happening to women in the world.

Just comes across as being outraged for the sake of it. It will stop people taking notice of the problems that are genuinely affecting women and girls.

FamilyOfAliens · 10/02/2020 07:04

How does it manage to stop women talking about their bodies? You can still do that

You missed out the words “knowingly, honestly and medically” when you quoted from that post.

Durgasarrow · 10/02/2020 05:06

Here's a quick tip: if blood is coming out from your vagina, you are female.

2BthatUnnoticed · 10/02/2020 03:49

I think it is a stupid, and elitist, pretension. But if others want to indulge personally, I have no objection.

I’m only bothered when they try to foist it women and girls in general. Not gonna happen.