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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Using the word "lady" for a woman, but not "gentleman" for a man

61 replies

Blackcountryman12 · 08/02/2020 21:52

I have always been interested in gender issues and feminism and one area I have studied is gender and language. As a male feminist, something I notice is the way people think the word "woman" sounds rude in some contexts, but "man" doesn't.

Because feminism is about equality between women and men, I often cringe when I hear "lady" in situations when "gentleman" isn't used. I'm not saying "gentleman" is never used, but when it is, it is only in certain contexts and often in its true sense ie. "he's a real gentleman". I have never liked this kind of unequal use.

I have heard "lady" and "gentleman" both used in polite contexts and I don't dislike that, but I have often also heard "lady" being used in ordinary conversation, when men are just "man", or "bloke"/chap" and increasingly "guy", which is perhaps the most commonly used Americanism that has come into British English.

I think the way "lady" has replaced "woman" in many situations is a good example of semantic derogation. My least favourite uses are where "lady" is used loosely as a substitute for woman, it can sound way too polite and twee in these contexts, as well as a little odd (you wouldn't call a man a gentleman), and I hate when a girl or young woman is condescendingly addressed as "young lady", I mean a boy or young man would just be called "young man" and not "young gentleman". What is is that people find rude about "woman"? Going back 100 years or more, people actually said "young woman", if you read texts from around that time.

OP posts:
Goosefoot · 09/02/2020 03:38

In those examples it would almost sound odd if you switched in man and woman. Like you were being extra emphatic or something.

stellabelle · 09/02/2020 02:54

I'm a nurse - at my workplace we tend to use lady and gentleman to describe the patients when talking to each other and to them. "The gent / gentleman in Bay 1 needs some analgesia" would be used, rather than man. Or " Mary, you'll be getting a new roommate. The new lady will be Susan" rather than woman.

I've always liked semantics - in this case I see the terms lady and gentleman as being on a higher level, more polite than the blunter man / woman.

Goosefoot · 09/02/2020 02:45

I don't think you can make the kinds of assumptions you want to when comparing the words in use. There are a lot of reasons one word may be dropped or replaced, but another won't. Sometimes for example there are several groups of words that may have similar meanings, and some of them are dropped, but not necessarily the ones that match each other in the most exact way. There can also be really significant regional and class differences in connotations and usage.

The type of analysis that wants to look at language as if its straightforward and clear cut and differences are always indicating some kind of preference or denigration of one party or group, is rather naive, and I'd like to be able to say it's passe.

As far as lady and gentlemen go, I could make several guesses as to why that might be:
possibly because in days when we expected a certain amount of public chivalry towards women, there was something of a tendency in polite society to call women "ladies" even if in fact, they weren't, and that usage has stuck. Whereas the term gentlemen was more often used in its technical sense.
Or the equivalent in popular use is "gents" and that has fallen out of favour because some people seem to associate it with toilets (that would not have occurred to me except it was brought up in the other thread.)

Fenlandmountainrescue · 09/02/2020 00:33

I always thought gentleman means respectable and nice things like holding the door. I realised it doesn't get used so much now, but I preferred the way men behaved when it was in common parlance.

Housiemousie · 08/02/2020 23:15

It is much harder to be a gentleman than a lady. I can be a lady easily enough, I don't know if my beloved husband has ever qualified as a gentleman, though he may have had his moments, never enough to qualify for the term!

In all honesty though: gentleman conjures up cane and top hat while lady is a woman who has good morals and manners.

MrsWednesdayteatime · 08/02/2020 23:11

I think I probably use 'gent' quiet a lot, I work in shops and have to hand customers over to actual store staff often, "hey Kate, could you help this gent" or "this gentleman is looking for the cookery books" wouldn't be unusual things to say. I think I probably use lady, gentleman & customer equally, saying man or woman sounds too harsh.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 08/02/2020 23:05

Lady and gentleman are class distinctions that people are still trying to work around in modern language usage.

lydiamajora · 08/02/2020 22:56

I don't really ever say "Mind the man." However, I do say, "Move over, there's a wo/man trying to get around you (to husband)." So not sure if there's a disparity in my own speech.

TheGreatWave · 08/02/2020 22:53

I find woman quite harsh, maybe it is just my accent, but "mind the woman" sounds ruder than "mind the lady"

(For context ds (ASD) has no spatial awareness so just walks into people)

lydiamajora · 08/02/2020 22:44

I often refer to service workers as sir or madam. "Sir" generally doesn't get a second thought, but "Madam" certainly seems to haha (though not in a bad way). Then again, personally I also refer to groups of men and women as gentlemen and ladies respectively :P Can't speak for people who aren't me, but I agree that "ladies" is used more often than "gentlemen" in a general setting. Nothing useful to add beyond that I'm afraid.

Fenlandmountainrescue · 08/02/2020 21:59

I say gentleman. It amuses me and I feel archaic. Plus, it puts an expectation on the man’s behaviour.