Using the word "lady" for a woman, but not "gentleman" for a man

No doubt, Errol.

I don't want to derail the thread, but that silly term immediately brings this brilliant spoof to mind.

What is a "male feminist"?

Perhaps a feminist ally who isn't up to date with all issues around gender and language?

*"especially by my male higher-ups" ...

I don't mind "lady" or "gent(leman)" in a service or polite context at all (e.g. at a shop) but, as a woman in a very male dominated profession, can't stand it in a professional context. Nor any of the chivalry stuff. I feel it comes with connotations of "dainty" and "in need of special consideration" and therefore undermines my professional authority.

I especially hate "ladies first" and having doors held open for me - especially by my male - and have taken to responding "Nah, there, age before beauty - so you go first, and not because I'm a woman."

I was just thinking about this the other day. The context was where I was asking one woman in an official capacity to help another woman, something like "Can you sort this woman's ticket out for her?" Saying "woman" felt a bit harsh, whereas "lady" really feels very archaic and unfeminist. Used to come up a lot when children were small - you don't want to say, "Say thank you to the nice woman" so you end up saying "lady". I did adopt the practice of saying "gentleman" rather than "man" to make it equal.

Now I feel as if I've overthought it. I don't suppose it matters in the great scheme of things.

What is a "male feminist"?

I say gentleman all the time.

When I first joined the military, they were just changing a lot of words to be sex-inclusive. So they weren't allowed to call the body of troops "men" anymore, as in, "Men, form up!" The older NCOs and officers would sometimes forget but the younger ones had been taught to do it that way. I always thought it was dumb, I'd have just as soon been included in "men" in that context. But the idea of men having a generic quality was going very out of style at that point.

What really annoyed me though was that when they specifically wanted to talk about the women, they always used the word "females". "Females, this is your room" for example.

They had decided not to use the word women as it was seen as possibly being offensive to some of us, but I always felt that "females" made me feel like I was a patient in a veterinary clinic.

I tend to use lady and gentleman when speaking about people within their earshot, as, "I think this lady/gentleman was waiting first," If someone tries to serve me first.

Likewise to DH or GC, "Shall we let the gentleman/lady with the pram get past?"

But I'm from an earlier generation, of course, so it doesn't ring false to me.

gentleman/gentlewoman

OK, just me then.

To quote something, just c&p with an asterisk either side - MN uses simple markup (paired hyphens for strikethrough, caret for italics, asterisk for bold) - which is easy enough when you get used to it but sometimes mangles a post which uses a dashes as punctuation or features high A level grades.

Lady can be a bit of a taboo word on this forum. I've seen quite a lot of posts by women furious that they have been referred to as lady e.g. a parent saying to their child "give the money to the lady".
I don't think woman sounds rude per se, but lady does fit better in certain sentences.

And equal pay only arrived in 1974 courtesy of Shirley Williams. The Union of Women Teachers opposed this move, and only merged with the NAS when the law prohibited single-sex trade unions in 1976.

This is because a schoolmaster was a qualified professional with a degree, and a schoolmistress was an unqualified childminder.

Actually, while the schoolmaster would have a degree, he would probably not have any professional qualification in teaching, whereas the school mistress ( by the early 20th c) would have likely have done a teacher training qualification.

The schoolmistress was miss because it was inconceivable that she would be married with a home, family and husband to attend to and be able to hold down a job.

More than that, in the past women could automatically lose their jobs on marriage.

My grandmother was a teacher pre WWI. Because of the shortage of male teachers due to them joining up, when she asked if she could continue after she married - her husband being away in the army anyway - her school board assented. However, they were surprised to find that she still expected to be paid for this privilege as she now had a man to keep her!

Teaching is interesting in that it's Sir and Miss, not Sir and Madam.

This is because a schoolmaster was a qualified professional with a degree, and a schoolmistress was an unqualified childminder.

"Sir" was how a well brought-up young gentleman addressed his father, and schoolmasters were in loco parentis.

The schoolmistress was miss because it was inconceivable that she would be married with a home, family and husband to attend to and be able to hold down a job.

Interestingly we were out for a meal last night and at one point the waiter referred to DD (who is 14) as "young woman". He obviously thought it sounded odd because he then changed it to "young lady" which (as per OP) he obviously thought sounded wrong too, because he then tried "young girl" which he was equally unhappy with.

It was interesting to hear because I did think "what is the correct way to refer to her?" and I'm not sure I know the answer.

"Guy" is an interesting word. I'm finding "guys" increasingly just means group of people (even if an all female group) but I've never heard a lone female being referred to as a guy.

Originally it was a class distinction. The upper classes were “gentlefolk”, ie ladies and gentlemen, and the working class were “simple folk” ie men and women.
It persisted right up to WW2. My parents were furious when poster invitations to a dance on their RAF base were worded: To officers and their ladies, sergeants and their wives, other ranks and their women”.
In addition to the class distinction, there is of course sexism, so “woman” is still seen as doubly derogatory to many people. Upgrading it to “lady” is, my opinion, a polite attempt to compensate.

My DS says lady and gentleman. I just think woman and man sounds rude - not sure why though!

He is 4 and does sound like a little old man ha

IME around here you'd hear eg 'let the man past' and 'let the lady past'. Agree with PP that it's because too many people woman sounds somehow rude. Which is not great, is it. I wonder if it's because when men (and women too) criticise women they often use the word woman as part of the insult eg 'stupid woman' whereas with a man you'd say 'stupid sod' or something, you don't often hear man used as part of it.

Words for women, our body parts are so much more value laden than men. Like how there's no equivalent to willy for girls, no nice friendly commonly used word. Instead a range that some people find ok and others obscene, or things like flower, foof etc

Language around us is trickier because of the way we're talked about, maybe.