Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

So many assumptions are being made on this thread about people's personal choices and decisions, and criticisms of a whole minority are being based upon those assumptions.

What assumptions? And they're not just personal choices and decisions when they have such a profound effect on everyone else.

I am deeply uncomfortable with gender expectations as they relate to girls and women 🤷🏻‍♀️. As are most of mumsnet.

So many assumptions are being made on this thread about people's personal choices and decisions, and criticisms of a whole minority are being based upon those assumptions.
I would have thought that feminists of all people would understand why this is not ok.

They don't want to be men, as such, but they are deeply uncomfortable with their emerging sexuality and the demands of gendered expectations as they relate to girls and women.

What seems bizarre is that instead of rejecting the idea of 'gender', they seem to accept that it must exist, but that they don't want to conform to gender stereotypes. They don't seem to have understood that it's possible to just reject gender altogether.

M K Fain's article last year describes how she went from living with three politically concerned women in 2018 to "one year later, all three of them identify as “non-binary” — no longer a woman. "

'Non-Binary Is the New “Not Like Other Girls,” and it’s Deeply Rooted in Misogyny'

concludes:
"Non-binary women are a testament to the great pain of being a woman, and the desperate need many of us have to find an escape. At the same time, women who claim to be non-binary throw all other women and girls under the bus. The claim that we are privileged for identifying with the sex “assigned to us at birth” misses the inherent violence in being a female under patriarchy.

In some countries, 70% of women have experienced sexual or physical violence from an intimate partner. 137 women are killed every day by a member of their own family. At least 200 million women and girls alive today have experienced genital mutilation, mostly before the age of five. This is why feminists argue for sex-based rights for women and girls.

Those who are the most non-conforming, no matter how they identify, will face oppression for transgressing social norms. Women are especially likely to be targeted for violence and discrimination based on gender non-conformity. This is true regardless of how the woman identifies, since the attacker can not know the internal “gender identity” of the woman before the prejudice occurs.

The uncomfortable truth is this: saying you are “not like other girls” is not an identity, it’s misogyny. Non-binary-identifying women like to claim an extra degree of oppression over women who they call “cis,” a term which implies that certain women are complicit in their own oppression. But we are not privileged for maintaining an understanding of the basis of our oppression; you are privileged if you believe you can escape it."
medium.com/4th-wave-feminism/non-binary-is-the-new-not-like-other-girls-and-its-deeply-rooted-in-misogyny-7a7e5ec539ba

Ok so we’ve established that some people’s demands about how they are spoken about are ok, and some people’s aren't and it depends on the goodness of the person; we will change our language if the nice person wants to compel us to, but not if the bad person wants to compel our language

Yes, we've established that some people are happy to do things for other people if they like and/or respect them, more than they are willing to do things for people they don't like and/or respect. Is that such a crazy idea

So that leads to two follow up questions:

The answer to both questions is it's up to you.

Hang in - how can you ‘come out’ as... well ‘nothing’? Are people really that desperate to come over as ‘fascinating

It's all driven by social media......and yes, people seem to be looking for external validation and 'likes'.

Most narcissists are heterosexual, yes.

And I think we can expect heaps more people identifying as non-binary after Mermaids gets into more and more schools, presenting a visual gender spectrum - to even primary-aged children - which shows a Barbie doll on the extreme left and a GI Joe doll on the extreme right. Who would honestly see themselves as identifying with either extreme? Children are being encouraged to evaluate their pre-pubescent identities and adopt labels. I was an outdoorsy/bookworm of a child who loved climbing trees, balancing on fences, swimming and riding my bike as well as curling up with a book (or more likely tucking it into my shorts and taking it up my favourite tree). If I'd been shown that spectrum aged 9, I have no idea what I would have made of it.

Gender conformity wants dismantling and the expectations and judgments that grow out of it are our real enemy, not the confused people who are trying to place themselves on an artificial and essentially meaningless spectrum.

The non binary people I know are all heterosexual. They're also all raging narcissists. I'm not sure if that's a coincidence

As post-menopausal woman the previous posts ring a bell, in that I have arrived at what I call sofa territory; ignored by the male gaze, free to be myself and able largely to relinquish the expectations of my sex. For the first time I'm wondering if I have grown into what non-binary and even ROGD young women are seeking?

I'm learning so much on here.

Hang in - how can you ‘come out’ as... well ‘nothing’? Are people really that desperate to come over as ‘fascinating’?

We’re all non-binary (‘having no gender’) then!

This bollocks of a definition can be found here

"So what exactly is non-binary?
Non-binary is an umbrella term in which an individual identifies as either;
having a gender which is in-between or beyond the two categories ‘man’ and ‘woman; and/or
fluctuating between ‘man’ and 'woman’; and/or
having no gender, either permanently or some of the time.
It is clear, therefore, that non-binary relates to an individual’s “gender identity”"

But female non-binary people sometimes take testosterone and bind their breasts, or even have mastectomies

For those girls and young women - non-binary is most likely felt to be a more accurate reflection of their feelings. They don't want to be men, as such, but they are deeply uncomfortable with their emerging sexuality and the demands of gendered expectations as they relate to girls and women.

Non Binary exists as a gender identity for those who have the confidence to see that the above is a load of bollocks as far as it pertains to themselves as an individual as they have no such inner sense of being male or female.

My perception of many people who define themselves as non binary is that they are totally immersed in gender ideology. In order to be non binary, they have to believe that gender is real and binary in the first place.

But maybe you're right and some of them are just saying that they don't believe in gender stereotypes and would just need a little nudge to see that this is what feminists have been saying forever.

'Non binaries' know gender stereotypes are bad for them.

GC feminists know gender stereotypes are bad for all women as a class (and men too in some aspects)

I'll take a bet that sexism still applies to nonbinaries.

but they are not that distressed - and certainly not enough to want to have to take hormones or under-go surgery.

But female non-binary people sometimes take testosterone and bind their breasts, or even have mastectomies.

Most non-binary people appear to be female.

Will this get deleted for stating that non-binary people have a sex?

But are non-binary people pretending that they don't have a sex at all

I think what they are saying is one of two things, or maybe several things, but one of them may be that they are not yet ready to come out as 'gay' - certainly in a culture which celebrates trans'ness above all else; and another maybe that they just want to be themselves - just like the rest of us -and not have to conform to any gendered expectations....but they are not that distressed - and certainly not enough to want to have to take hormones or under-go surgery.

To be non-binary is to be 'in the spirit' of the movement; to belong to it....to be seen as freeing oneself of the shackles of gender altogether. Being no-binary is like 'a holding space' that gives one permission to be whoever you are.

None of this is new, though...that's the thing. People have been playing around with gendered roles and expressions for a long time.....but in those days it was not framed in the language of gender ideology and queer theory.

I've never said anybody's speech should be compelled. This is nuts. I'm out

But you are...in essence.

You are saying that people should speak in ways which go against their every instinct and/or belief.

I'm assuming that is because you yourself genuinely believe that it is possible for someone to be born in the wrong body? However, you need to understand that not everyone does believes in that.

You need to come out as ‘Gender Free’, OP. Naturally, as you are of the Gender Free faith, you will insist that you don’t recognise gender and find the concept of it oppressive, insulting to your faith and triggering. Double think is your weapon.

As PP have said treat with dignity and respect, look for other jobs. Use exit interview to highlight unsuitability for management role.

Yes, the LM should and she should explain that she’s unsuitable for a management role, as she’s incapable of carrying out her current duties. She’s using woke none-binary bullshite in order to protect herself against any accusations, as she can pull out the ‘most oppressed minority’ card, as protection.

What has absence got to do with it, Charlie? Surely people should be referred to in the same terms regardless of who is present

Many people may well conform to the 'rules' and expectations when in 'controlled' intimate spaces - but when left to talk and speak freely will use the language that most reflects what they see and what they really think or feel. Only the most righteous are going to continue to monitor and censor themselves when in private.

If you don't believe in gender ideology if you don't believe that someone can literally be 'born in the wrong body', then being forced to speak in an unnatural way is an oppression; and furthermore an oppression which denigrates the facts, rights and dignities of your own sex.