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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

532 replies

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 18:39

My line-manager emailed everyone in the office last week to say she was non-binary and we should use they/them pro-nouns.
Today I inadvertently called her she in an email to a colleague in another office, but line-manager was copied in, plus her line-manager. Are you keeping up? Confused
My line-manager responded to the email and added at the bottom a reminder about her pro-nouns.
I do not believe in the gender identity ideology and so object to being told to speak in an unnatural and incorrect way, but what I am incandescent about is being called out in front of 2 other colleagues.
Am I over reacting?

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SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 19:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 07/02/2020 19:26

position to bully *staff

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 07/02/2020 19:26

Leave your politics and the door and put your manners on and behave in a polite way back by respecting this person's feelings.

She’s the one bringing politics and beliefs into work, not the OP, so maybe she should put her manners on and stop enforcing compelled speech. In the part of the health service I was in, we are are not permitted to discuss religion or politics, so why is this line manager abusing her position to bully stay into following her beliefs.

Clymene · 07/02/2020 19:26

Oh it's such a terrible mangling of language.

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week. She explained our position and, after listening carefully, they understood and were happy with our approach.'

Vs

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week. They explained our position and, after listening carefully, they understood and were happy with our approach.'

Second is horribly confusing. So now we have to write:

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week. They explained our position and, after listening carefully, the committee understood and were happy with our approach.'

Which is still bloody confusing because in usual written English, they refers to a plural. They is typically only used to refer to an individual when we don't know who they are (like I just did Grin).

It's bloody confusing and I won't do it. I'd rather just repeat Angela ad infinitum, even though that's clumsy.

My job is to write clearly, often for people with ESL. I'm damned if I'm going to confuse them for the sake of people's vanity.

Goosefoot · 07/02/2020 19:25

I might have a quick look at the employment rules where you work. If you are risking your employment it would be ideal to know that before you do anything!

I would probably do what others suggested and avoid pronouns altogether. Annoying but I am not willing to concede ownership of pronouns by individuals.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 07/02/2020 19:25

it doesnt cost you anything to respect their request

This.
How does it harm you, exactly?
I'd just respect their decision.
Even though inside if I'm truthful, using plural words such as they and them for a singular person mangles my head lol Grin

TalaxuArmiuna · 07/02/2020 19:24

time to start job hunting. an employer that enforces belief in magic feelz isn't going to be a decent employer so best leave asap.

VickyEadieofThigh · 07/02/2020 19:23

I'd definitely use her name at all times in place of pronouns.

I refuse to have my speech compelled. She can tell me what name she wants to be called, but she cannot tell me how I must refer to her in the 3rd person.

Mintjulia · 07/02/2020 19:22

Just call her by her name every time. You can't be criticised for that.

Mrs Jones was in the meeting, Mrs Jones said this, Mrs Jones presented that etc etc.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 07/02/2020 19:21

Just use the self obsessed twit’s name every.single.time. Never ever use any pronouns. “So ‘Philips’ wants you to send Philips a copy of that report so that Philips can deal with it. Philips says that Philips wants it by end of day.” Every single communication. She can’t compel you to use nonsense language.

Moltenpink · 07/02/2020 19:21

I don’t think it would really be polite to use she in that context anyway? Using the name is much more professional.

Worried2020 · 07/02/2020 19:19

It’s complete nonsense but unfortunately we have play along to this bollocks or risk our jobs.

GCAcademic · 07/02/2020 19:19

You can’t get away with demanding your staff call you Sir or Madam these days, and this is the superiority signal that affords her the deference she feels she’s entitled to.

TheMemoryLingers · 07/02/2020 19:18

Everyone I know who uses preferred pronouns loves the attention and drama of it all.

I don't think your anecdotal experience can be taken as a rule that applies to the OP's situation. Phrases beginning 'Everyone I know who ...' aren't usually relevant to the world beyond the narrow experience of the individual.

reginafelangee · 07/02/2020 19:17

You are being unreasonable.

You do not have to agree or believe in other people's views on gender identity but you do have to behave in a reasonable way in the workplace.

This person has politely asked you to use gender neutral pronouns and politely reminded you.

Leave your politics and the door and put your manners on and behave in a polite way back by respecting this person's feelings.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 07/02/2020 19:16

Asking you to relearn a lifetime of using and speaking English and complaining when you don’t immediately switch.

Complete pointless bollocks. You shouldn’t be compelled to be complicit in this wankery.

Personally I think it is bullying and trying to set up other people for failure.

Not sure how you stand with HR but non -binary is not a protected characteristic.

Just use ‘their’ name and state that you are non- binary too - unless you identify with every corrosive female stereotype out there - most of us are non- binary!

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/02/2020 19:15

I’d just use her name in place of pronouns. That way you are not being compelled to write in a certain way. It’s ridiculous and invasive.

GeordieTerf · 07/02/2020 19:12

Everyone I know who uses preferred pronouns loves the attention and drama of it all. That's what this is all about.

I too would just use her name and avoid pronouns altogether.

OhHolyJesus · 07/02/2020 19:09

Have you got an employees handbook or code of conduct OP?

I would bet money on there not being a single mention of pronouns let alone preferred pronouns.

They/them is plural so you can always argue that is goes against your grammatical purist beliefs and language matters. Wink

Hope it's not too rough at work next week. This sort of thing sucks and can grind you down. Stand tall.

NonnyMouse1337 · 07/02/2020 19:04

I look on it in a similar light to covering hair in certain religious buildings.

Except you can choose not to enter such religious buildings altogether, if you really don't want to. This is compulsion at a place of work, which should be secular. No other religious group compels non-believers to engage in rituals that are a part of its faith. (Well there are, but only if you are in a theocratic society and the majority are of a particular religion, which is not the case here anyway.) If you were suddenly told you had to cover your hair at the office every day and if you happened to forget, then you'd be told off for it, I'd imagine your sense of graciousness would evaporate fairly quickly.

aliasundercover · 07/02/2020 19:04

I think some people really love attention, and they’ll do anything they can to get it.

If it were me I’d give her this attention by constructing wilfully awkward sentences that avoid her pronouns altogether. See what move ‘they’ make after that.

JellySlice · 07/02/2020 19:04

Why compelled pronouns are a bad idea: https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

It is irrelevant that the person in this case is female. Pretending that it's OK in this case makes it easier to be OK in the next case, and the next, and the next

OhHolyJesus · 07/02/2020 19:03

All I can suggest is avoiding pronouns altogether and using her name instead.

It will make your emails clunky and awkward but at least you can show that you refuse to be coerced into an ideology you don't support. Your colleagues will know this too. It's still compelled speech in a way but I see it as a compromise.

If she then insists you use pronouns then it's HR/Unions and a court case. You cannot force someone to follow you in your beliefs just because they work for you.

What its costs ReallyLily is freedom of speech and freedom of expression, and the line manager should also be respectful of her colleagues and those she manages as she has a responsibility, using your words, to be a decent and sensitive person to her staff. ^
^
Or she can be a gender ideology tyrant and treat her employees with contempt and explode with rage when someone slips up with her preferred pronouns. What about what the OP prefers?

CallofDoodee · 07/02/2020 19:03

Meh, if it's what matters to them, then that's fair enough. It's not something I believe in either, but I look on it in a similar light to covering hair in certain religious buildings.

But the OP is not in another person's religious building is she, she is in her place of work?

BaolFan · 07/02/2020 19:01

Forward it to HR with a short and factual email which points out that being non-binary is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act and could they advise on how best to deal with this.

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