Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

I'm so glad I'm self employed as I couldn't be doing with all that shite either. I don't believe that anyone can change sex but if someone goes to the effort of a double mastectomy and takes hormones to make a beard grow, I'll play along and say "him".

I don't believe in gender, I don't identify as anything or any gender and no, that doesn't mean I'm fluid or non-binary or that shite it just means I don't believe in gender. Non-binary and gender fluid and all that sort of nonsense if just self-absorbed LOOK AT ME behaviour.

I would quietly come out as non binary too - perhaps in a reply to the email thread with the other two colleagues copied in. However I would add that you choose to continue with sex-based pronouns because it can be confusing and distressing for some people, notably people with autism, to be compelled to change the way they use the English language.
Out woke her!

This! As for al, that bullshite about “respect, be nice, be considerate, it would be kind.” Funny how it only ever goes one way, isn’t it?

So what would happen if you chose a preferred pronoun of say 'it' and this was adopted in emails?

'Jo contacted me yesterday. It felt uncomfortable.'

What felt uncomfortable? The person or the atmosphere?

Write that you have thought at lrngth about pronouns but have decided that because your feelings of non-binary are so sincere and deeply held that you don't want to undermine them by forcing people to walk on eggshells around you.

Reply with this emoji 🙄 , I use it all the time and it irritates the hell out of whoever irritated me first

What would be expected in France when I thought (very rusty memories of school French lessons) everything had to be male or female, there wasn't a gender neutral option?

Compelled pronouns are a bad idea. I suspect the vast majority of trans and non binary people navigating the world quietly as most do would be happy to be addressed by just their name. There aren't many phrases that can't be adjusted to use a name instead of a pronoun if you find using pronouns unpalatable.

I suspect though if you search the company handbook there will be something about respecting the reasonable expectation of dignity of other work colleagues.

Many companies have policies that workers are likely to disagree with albeit, I don't suspect you would be in a majority If you were to insist a personally held belief were respected and promoted even at the erosion of another colleagues dignity. I think there was a recent court case that rightly or wrongly delivered a long and detailed judgement along those lines?

That said, freedom of expression in a democratic country can not be played down. But, whilst it is very useful in cases that cause the most controversy such as Karen White, Muslim grooming gangs and sex offenders operating under the protection of the Catholic Church we do sadly live in a democracy which has an unsavory history of detestable discrimination stretching back a long time. Think Windrush, Section 28 and the export of intolerance towards trans people in India at the time of the empire for an example.

As such in my opinion it is then imperative that your perceived reluctance to respect the persons dignity or seek an agreeable alternative such as name use isn't glossed over. Alternatively we could accept on this one occasion that you made a genuine error. However, statements on a public forum such as 'I do not believe in the gender identity' may not prove helpful in unequivocally supporting that assertion.

Of course, it is your right to challenge it and put forward an argument however, if you are seeking to remove a courtesy from one minority and that is upheld, where does it stop? If it were hypothetically to result in a law change or policy change they wouldn't just remove the protection for the characteristic you don't like or agree with, they would just remove the protection full stop. As in the recent court case, a freedom granted for the lady to openly state her disagreements and beliefs with regards to trans people openly in her office, even to the discomfort of others would have also given open season to any misogynistic swine to claim a protected belief about the superiority of males when wrongly denigrating and harassing a female colleague. A bit of a case of sometimes it's worth being careful about what you wish for.

I'll state again, I believe compelled speech is wrong and the demand or expectation of a pronoun is wrong but, in this particular case I truly believe it Is non controversial enough for you to find a way around it, e.g. using just their name in an effort to both maintain their dignity and ensure your belief remains intact.

Perhaps that isn't reasonable, who knows?

I would quietly come out as non binary too - perhaps in a reply to the email thread with the other two colleagues copied in. However I would add that you choose to continue with sex-based pronouns because it can be confusing and distressing for some people, notably people with autism, to be compelled to change the way they use the English language.
Outwoke her!

I dont buy all this non binary, gender fluid business.

the mature, respectful thing to do is to make the effort to treat your coworked (manager!!) with decency and sensitivity. That means respecting their pronouns.

Absolutely not. No one has the right to tell us to use their convoluted language and imaginary gender instead of correct English and the laws of biology.

Only, we have to keep our mouths shut at work or risk losing our jobs and potentially our employability. So I feel for you, Spinning, because the sensible thing to do is not the heroic thing.

In writing, it's possible to re-write in a less clumsy way, but it takes time. I don't know about anyone else but most of the emails I send at work are written very quickly. Having to stop and check the pronoun usage and if necessary re-write in a way I can live with would slow me up a lot.

*Angela met with the committee earlier this week. They explained our position and, after listening carefully, they understood and were happy with our approach.^

Massively confusing.

'Angela met with the committee earlier this week to explain our position and, after listening carefully, committe members understood and were happy with our approach.'

Clearer, but takes longer.

I would never in a million years subject myself to adhering to such self-obsessed crap like referring to them as they.

I went with Kate to the supermarket. There was a crowd of people. I was ok but they were very annoyed.
Who am I talking about???

Just use your co-worker's initials or name.

Preferred pronouns are nonsense if for no other reason than you, and everyone else you are talking to, have no idea what someone's preferred pronouns are unless they are there reminding you all (including the people you are talking to about them). In which case you would use their name. If they are not there then you cannot be expected to learn preferred pronouns for every person you may or may not come across ever.

Rather be known as good at my job. People email me the whole time and spell my name/title wrong. Whatever......

I would find that akin to lying.

Exactly.

I'd also be looking for another job. This person will be insufferable due to all the attention seeking drama.

In the meantime, I'd use your manager's name instead of a preferred pronoun.

It's a cult. Trans... I can kind of understand. Person believes they're in the wrong body. Non-binary makes no sense at all. It's self-indulgent tripe.

NotTerfNorCis, I can't understand any of it. Some of it is probably self-indulgent tripe, people desperate for attention finding a new way to demand it. Some of it is desperately unhappy people who've lost touch with reality. None of it makes sense to me. I was reflecting today that if I had to deal directly with somebody who wanted me to treat them as something other than their biological sex, I would struggle. I don't care how people dress or present to the world. If they want to change their names, fine, go for it. But when it comes to saying 'she' in relation to someone I know to be male, or vice versa, I would find that akin to lying.

I'm not on the autistic spectrum but I have a close relative who is. Maybe this is an autistic trait. I'm not good at holding my tongue or remaining poker-faced when somebody's saying which is obviously untrue or factually incorrect.

X post with your update

This shit is everywhere so it will be likely to end up in the same place.

This person sounds like a very bad manager, but I think you should keep pronouns out of the matter - they wouldn't be any better as a manager if they'd kept 'she/her' pronouns. Don't judge the idea of having preferred pronouns by your experience of one person who happens to be a poor manager.

I’m going to go against the grain

I’d use “they” if I needed to keep the job. Otherwise, use Angela. She will complain that is bullying too.

but was able to complete an album for her band during her last one as well as perform on stage at gigs.

Hang on! Surely working in another job, while on the sick is a sackable offence?

Ah, so you don't like her anyway (with good reason from what you've said).

Just try to avoid pronouns if you can.

Not surprised at all.

Honestly I'd start looking for another job.
I couldn't work under somebody this incompetent and I'd lose all respect for them. Which obviously couldn't work as a working relationship.