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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

532 replies

SpinningTooFastWantToGetOff · 07/02/2020 18:39

My line-manager emailed everyone in the office last week to say she was non-binary and we should use they/them pro-nouns.
Today I inadvertently called her she in an email to a colleague in another office, but line-manager was copied in, plus her line-manager. Are you keeping up? Confused
My line-manager responded to the email and added at the bottom a reminder about her pro-nouns.
I do not believe in the gender identity ideology and so object to being told to speak in an unnatural and incorrect way, but what I am incandescent about is being called out in front of 2 other colleagues.
Am I over reacting?

OP posts:
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Oulu · 08/02/2020 01:13

Forward it to HR with a short and factual email which points out that being non-binary is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act and could they advise on how best to deal with this

If I were in HR I'd tell you that the Equality Act is irrelevant and you should do what your Line Manager asks you to do, in accordance with your employment contract.

Oulu · 08/02/2020 01:11

You didn't do what you were asked in a communication that included other colleagues, and the manager corrected your error in her response. Her action was perfectly reasonable, and not something for you to be "incandescent" about.

NC4Now · 08/02/2020 01:11

I think call people what they want to be called. My children use shortened version of their birth names but I’m always so grateful when doctors or teachers use their preferred names.
I’m happy to go with whatever name or pronoun suits the wearer. It doesn’t change biology but if it makes them more comfortable 🤷‍♀️

UnWilly · 08/02/2020 01:01

This is also quite an interesting thread discussing where apparently avoiding using pronouns (like in some of the ways suggested above) is Bad

"Explicitly avoiding using someone’s pronouns because you are uncomfortable is a way of refusing to recognize their identity and is a violation of the Code of Conduct"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3717750-StackOverflow-CoC

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 01:01

In the workplace agreeing that an employee is 'non-binary' so either both male & female or neither male or female has wider implications.
How should employees who identify as 'non-binary' use sex-based facilities or record sex-based data?

Durgasarrow · 08/02/2020 00:55

"It costs you nothing" is an incredibly insulting and demeaning phrase. It devalues the opinions and feelings of the person to whom it is spoken. It is a chiding, superior, condescending turn of speech used to invalidate and dismiss another person's reality. It is also a phrase that is a dead giveaway that a trans rights advocate wants to tell women what they need to do and how they need to be controlled. It is a dead giveaway.

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 00:55

Wotcha
Source is linked under your post with the question.
(Also see the BBC article I have linked & quoted for context)

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 08/02/2020 00:50

I see you've kind of replied to me, Rowan, a link to something but not what I actually asked, what about the rest?
but I've not heard of ziezim siesie etc? Where are you getting this from

UnWilly · 08/02/2020 00:47

This from Slate is quite interesting:

"Why Using They/Them to Avoid Misgendering People Could Do More Harm Than Good"

slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/using-gender-neutral-pronouns-could-actually-misgender-people.html

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 00:45

Surely at some point it comes back to not being able to control how people refer to you when you’re not actually present

Its not just about how people are controlled about how they refer to an individual its about modifying how language functions & so therefore controlling how people think.

NotAtMyAge · 08/02/2020 00:44

If you haven't seen this before, it sums up the whole mess. [grins]

BitOfFun · 08/02/2020 00:43

It doesn't cost you anything to respect their request

It does, actually.

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 00:42

I've said using them mangles my head as it is a plural and specifying one person

This is the point made in the article by Barra Kerr in the article, 'Banned from Medium: Pronouns are Rohypnol'

uncommongroundmedia.com/banned-from-medium-pronouns-are-rohypnol/

Try the Stroop Test as suggested.

74NewStreet · 08/02/2020 00:38

Surely at some point it comes back to not being able to control how people refer to you when you’re not actually present, which is generally when you’re referred to as he/she.
How is it policed? Do other people take umbrage on behalf of someone not actually taking part in the conversation and report them for hate speech? It’s mind blowing 😬

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 00:34

2015 BBC article
'Beyond 'he' and 'she': The rise of non-binary pronouns'
(extract)
For example, when new students attended orientation sessions at American University in Washington DC a few months ago, they were asked to introduce themselves with their name, hometown, and preferred gender pronoun (sometimes abbreviated to PGP).

"We ask everyone at orientation to state their pronouns," says Sara Bendoraitis, of the university's Center for Diversity and Inclusion, "so that we are learning more about each other rather than assuming."

A handful of universities go further and allow students to register their preferred pronouns in the university computer systems - and also a preferred name.

At the University of Vermont, which has led this movement, students can choose from "he," "she," "they," and "ze," as well as "name only" - meaning they don't want to be referred to by any third-person pronoun, only their name." (continues)

www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34901704

74NewStreet · 08/02/2020 00:33

What self absorbed arseholery. Utterly flabbergasting.

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 00:30

Yes
Mostly prevalent in US/Canadian universities but no doubt spreading

uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary
WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 08/02/2020 00:27

I've said using them mangles my head as it is a plural and specifying one person, but I've not heard of ziezim siesie etc?
Where are you getting this from?

74NewStreet · 08/02/2020 00:23

Jesus, R0wan Shock. This is a thing? And these gobshites are actually indulged in this farcical nonsense? 🤦‍♀️

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 00:07

apologies... there were spaces between the 'pronouns' before I pressed post! Blush

R0wantrees · 08/02/2020 00:06

I think it's the same with pronouns. There are more important things to argue about, pick your battles.

Controlling someone else's speech is an important thing.
Many will find it very difficult to use plural they/them for an individual especially as its unclear what one should do with the verb that follows eg he is / she is / they is?

Some people who identify themself as 'non-binary' want others to use unfamiliar terms

zie zim zir zis zieself
sie sie hir hirs hirself
ey em eir eirs eirself
ve ver vis vers verself
tey ter tem ters terself
e em eir eirs emself

Hmm
DiegoSaber · 07/02/2020 23:59

That’s nice. People attempting to distort reality and insisting I be a party to it makes a hell of a difference to me

Fair enough. Some people get annoyed more easily than others, and over different things. Was simply airing my opinion on it, since OP asked!

74NewStreet · 07/02/2020 23:57

That’s nice. People attempting to distort reality and insisting I be a party to it makes a hell of a difference to me.

Bluerussian · 07/02/2020 23:57

Call her by her name or else address her as, "Line Manager". Ridiculous person.

DiegoSaber · 07/02/2020 23:54

Like I said, makes no difference to me!

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